World map showing net reduction in publisher numbers

by cedars 188 Replies latest jw friends

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  slimboyfat

  If you read the whole thread bobycamille you'll notice that I pointed out the map was wrong to claim a net reduction in publisher numbers.

  I happen to think that JWs are still doing quite well in terms of growth when you compare them with other religious groups. But whether JWs are growing or whether they are declining, in my personal opinion, it doesn't change the fact that fundamentally they don't have the truth as they claim. Theirs is an ideology that is not worth following because it represents a narrow conception of the world and its possibilities that impoverishes one's opportunities and capacity for a genuine and beautiful life.
• 

  jookbeard

  Bobbycamille; your own fellow JW's and your own GB, do a fair bit of hating as well.
• 

  cedars

  slimboyfat - please don't try and use lost souls like bobycamille in your twisted agenda against me.

  If you are truly genuine in your assertions, why don't you have the balls to start a thread entitled "JWs are still doing quite well in terms of growth" and see what responses you get? That would be far more productive than hijacking the threads of others and trying to paint the Society in a favorable light even though they are at least seven years into a lengthy period of decline.

  Yes, I now admit that "net reduction/increase" was a poor use of terminology given the subject matter, even though I was trying to solicit alternatives from the very beginning - which you were reticent to give. Will I apologize to you? No. The reason is because I personally don't believe you are a genuine person. I believe you have complicated agendas that perhaps even you can't fully explain. I believe you enjoy causing confusion and division on threads such as this. I wasn't sure at first, but seeing you now trying to use confused and indoctrinated JWs as pawns in your little game convinces me I was right to be cautious of your motives.

  Cedars
• 

  John_Mann

  Wow! You can smell the tension from this thread by a mile!
• 

  cedars

  I'm so sorry John-Mann - I really didn't mean to lose it like that. It's just I can't think of anything that repulses me more than poor confused Jdubs being manipulated with pro-Society ideology on this forum, i.e. "JWs are still doing quite well in terms of growth", "the Society doesn't try to exaggerate how well it is doing in the preaching work, it's quite honest" - both of which are views expressed by slimboyfat recently on threads that I've started.

  I'm an imperfect man. I make mistakes. I'm quite proud and I get worked up easily (haha, as you can see)! I'm certainly no mathematician, and never claimed to be. However, one thing you can't accuse me of is trying to trick anyone. That is honestly NOT my agenda at all. I don't appreciate slimboy insinuating this whenever he gets the opportunity.

  Cedars
• 

  wasblind

  I think the WTS is doin' great when in comes to growth also,

  especially wit "FAKED " field service reports mixed in wit the actual ones

  Jus sayin'

  Here's another thought : Does anyone think gas prices affect, the rise in FAKED reports ???

  that would be hard to gage scince the WTS can't tell if any report is true at all

  again jus' sayin', carry on
• 

  cedars

  lol wasblind

  I'd rather not "carry on". I think I might have reacted in precisely the way slimboyfat wanted me to react! I fell right into it.

  Stupid me.

  Cedars
• 

  wasblind

  Hey cedars,

  it's alright, we are allowed to fall short because we are imperfect humans
• 

  sir82

  Looking at the raw numbers, it appears that the JWs are doing well - looking at just the net increase as a percentage.

  But as Cedar's numbers point out, there is a huge churn. Every 5 years, a million new members join - but 500,000 leave (or are forced out).

  What other religion has such a huge exodus?

  The problem for the WTS is that the new members don't have the same emotional investment as the "old-timers". There is a leadership gap - fewer men are "qualified", even by the WTS meager standards, and the kids of old-timers have little or no interest in "reaching out".

  The numbers will continue to grow for a while, but the remaining elders will be stretched thinner and thinner. More and more "on the bubble" publishers will be ignored, not getting their "shepherding calls", and drop out.

  Once the numbers turn, and we do start to see a net decrease, I think it will go down pretty quickly.
• 

  slimboyfat

  try and use lost souls like bobycamille in your twisted agenda against me.

  What twisted agenda would that be? To let a (perhaps) wavering JW know that not all apostates either fail to understand what a net increase is or misrepresent the facts? Or that not everyone who no longer believes in the JWs feels that growth or decline is a key barometer of whether they have the truth?

  The fact is JWs are still growing. Their growth is poorer than it has been in the past, but compares favourably with other Christian groups that are declining in many western countries. So from a secular perspective they are doing not bad.

  The problem with placing too much emphasis on their slowed growth in arguing against the JW worldview is, what do you say if they start growing rapidly again? In my view JWs were just as wrong in the 1950s when they were growing 10% a year or more as they are now when they are only growing 2% a year or less. If they start growing more rapidly again it won't make their message have any more merit.