The Great Debate: "Has Science Refuted Religion?

by dark angle 239 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  NewChapter

  Zid, I have a book called The Invisible Sex that is trying to define the female role in prehistory. It hasn't really been researched like the male role. Interesting stuff. Jean Auel (favorite author) helped bring together archeologists from all over the world and hired interpretors. The problem is that women often deal in soft substances, but the men have the weapons or hard substances.

  They've been finding some amazing things. Now that they are actually looking (now that women have increased in the field) they are finding textile patterns pressed into pottery and other ways to find evidence of some of the softer materials. Anyway, thought you might find it an interesting book. I'm not finished reading it yet. My history professor found it and directed me to buy it.

  NC
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  FlyingHighNow

  And I also hate it when people claim that another ex-JWs beliefs or philosophies are "crap" or "junk." I don't believe atheism or religion is crap or junk. I do believe this particular debate about science vs. religion is misleading, but that doesn't mean that I think atheists are close minded or not grounded in reality for their beliefs. Why do you tear down your fellow ex-JW who may now embrace a religion or some aspects of spirituality by use of such language? Is it because you miss the feeling of having "the Truth" the Watchtower gave you? It's possible, because they taught us to feel that way. Should we leave that type of behavior behind with the Witnesses who love to be that and give each other support? We’ve all had so much rejection and hatred already from the JWs!

  The reason behind what I posted and what I have been saying is not because I have anything against atheism or the general debate of science/religion itself. I am trying to expose how the Watchtower sometimes still infects our way of thinking and acting even once we leave. There's no difference between a Jehovah's Witness who claims they have it right and that other beliefs are crap and junk and ourselves if claim we have it right and are calling the beliefs of others crap or junk. We just changed brand names, but have kept the same clothing; we've adopted a new flavor, but its still "Kool-Aid."

  Thank you. This is exactly what I have been saying, but in more words. All of us have to fight this wtbts way of approaching things, as they beat that into our psyches and habits. It is an opinionated type of approach not easy laid by the roadside. Opinonated: not meaning simply passionate opinions, but in the sense of being obnoxious with our passionate opinions.

  Science can refute some religious teachings. It can. I don't think that's ever been an issue. And except for very cultish types of faiths, most people understand that many things, taught centuries ago, have been updated with more accurate information.

  If you've had much exposure to a variety of scientists and their teachings and findings, it will soon become clear that while some scientists do embrace atheism, some do not. Scientists are as varied in their concepts of atheism, theism and deism as non scientists are varied. The atheist point of view really doesn't need to ride on 100 % support or participation of scientists. And that's good because they will probably never get that. I think that respect is due to both sides of this coin. Live and let live. If a cult becomes dangerous, may someone step in and protect its members, otherwise, leave people alone. There are controlling types of people in the secular world. There are controlling types people involved in some, but certainly not all, religions and forms of spirituality. There are also a lot of healthy, balanced people in both the secular and spiritual/believer/religionist worlds.
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  NewChapter

  All of us have to fight this wtbts way of approaching things, as they beat that into our psyches and habits. It is an opinionated type of approach not easy laid by the roadside. Opinonated: not meaning simply passionate opinions, but in the sense of being obnoxious with our passionate opinions.

  LOL! Cofty's Law. Invoking Cofty's Law says much more about the person accusing others of being under the influence of the WTBTS than it says about the person being accused. LOL

  Again, it is a cheap shot, and can be manipulated to attack anyone that has something to say you don't like. Someone could say to you, '"maybe when you stop being so influenced by the WTBS you won't feel such the need to counsel every whose approach you do not like. Perhaps then you will see that you don't necessarly have to like other's approaches, it's life outside the KH. We get to have different ways about us, and are not in need of an elderette to stand watch and hand out grades." That's how cheap shots work. They are easy and work on anyone.

  I don't really believe it is WTBTS thinking that causes you to routinely compare people to JW's or claim they are influenced by the WTBTS. No, that thinking rests solely with you. I will completely let you remain validated. I validate that your efforts to invalidate and insult othes by invoking Cofty's Law's comes completely from you with no outside influence.

  Disclaimer: All comparison to the WTBTS (stemming from ME anyway) was complete satire and an effort to show how Cofty's law can be invoked against ANYONE who would choose such a tactic. I myself would not invoke Cofty's law in seriousness.

  NC
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  FlyingHighNow

  New Chapter, what OldGenerationDude has said is exactly how I feel and it is good advice for all of us. You, me, all of us.
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  NewChapter

  I'm not sure what advice Old Generation gave. But like all advice, I will decide what advice is best or me. But feel free to take any advice you'd like to take. That's the freedom of being outside the KH---none of us are forced to accept any particular counsel.
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  FlyingHighNow

  If someone says to me, "Hey, Heather, you're acting like a JW there." I'm not going to take offense. I'm going to pause and do some introspective thinking. And it wouldn't matter if 10 of my friends came rallied and shouted "Cofty's Law!" to try to make me feel better. In the end, the truth is the truth and I've got to figure that out for myself. If I am approaching something with the old WT zeal and opinionated way, then I'll figure that out and do something about it. If you find it offensive, then you've got some growing to do, young lady. Otherwise, I think you're pretty cool.
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  FlyingHighNow

  Well, the quotes I gave were from his very well thought out comments. They are on page one and two of this thread.
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  NewChapter

  How about if 10 people came to you and said you were condensending?
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  tec

  Okay, I have to say that this whole Cofty's law thing is driving me nuts, lol. If there is a valid comparison, then there is a valid comparison, and you cannot hide behind a made-up law just to invalidate a comparison. It is valid to call something reminiscent of the nazis and their mind-set if it IS reminiscent of them... because we should remember and stop ourselves short if we are adopting that sort of mind-set. Since that is the law that cofty's law is based upon, then it should work the same.

  Now if the comparison is made to state, 'you poor thing, you just can't break free of the WTS', then by all means, call someone on that one... because that can also be a way to invalidate that person's opinion. (Of course, you realize that atheists also do this to those who left the WTS, but did not leave Christ and God.) Sometimes, it is also done in all sincerity, and this is done by most everyone here, in some form or another.

  Personally, I just prefer to call it what it is without the comparison to a touchy thing... because this black and white thinking; this I am right and every other view or way of doing things that disagrees with me is wrong... is common among far more than just JW's. When anyone employs this type of thinking, atheist included, then they sound no different than the fundamentalist types usually being railed against.

  I do not think it is possible for two opposite sides of a view to agree with one another... that kind of goes without saying. But it is possible to be respectful of someone else's view (as long as it is not hurting others), even if you disagree with it. And if it isn't possible for you to do this, then you should reflect upon your 'black and white' thinking.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  FlyingHighNow

  How about if 10 people came to you and said you were condensending?

  I would say to you that you can't hear the tone of voice or see body language in written comments. I'd also say that most if not all of the 10 would be JWN atheists and reading my comments with ultra, ultra super sensitivity.