by cedars 130 Replies latest jw friends
The first time I heard Richard Dawkins say "I don't know" I was shocked. I thought he was 100% atheist and nothing would persuade him to be swayed otherwise.
Evidence to the contrary would persuade him though, which means he is nowhere near as closed minded as some of the people who slate him.
I like it. IT can show up or manifest at anytime.
"I believe the technical issue here is having the honesty to admit that you cannot PROVE the non-existence of a God. Therefore, the term agnostic (even if you are 100% sure in your own reasoning) is more intellectually honest."
Exactly.....trying to PROVE that God does not exist is no different than trying to PROVE that he does. There is no absolute
Evidence to the contrary would persuade him though, which means he is nowhere near as closed minded as some of the people who slate him.
Worth repeating. I imagine there's going to be some moments of thoughtful introspection over this thread.
When it boils down to it, the agnostic is just not sure about anything relating to god(s). And some feel that if there is a god, god is very distant and not involved in the maintenance of the material universe, especially the conscious part.
I have teetered at various places on the spectrum between belief and agnosticism since I was 14. I wasn't rasied a JW, so thank goodness I let go of Jehovah and the JW concept of God. The years I spent as a JW were the most agnostic years I've had. Violent, perfectionist, jealous Jehovah never seemed real to me and I had to literally force myself to pray during those years.
When it boils down to it, the agnostic is just not sure about anything relating to god(s).
OH, many agnostics are very, very sure in there own mind that the god legend makes no sense scientifically.
However, as a scientist - I have to admit that I do not know what came before the big bang, and if by the least possibility some sentient power set the clockwork into motion.
It is pretty clear by now, though, that such a "creator" is not in contact with us except in our own human imagination.
james_woods, lol, not a further sub-division! Militant atheists and highly-militant atheists, ouch - my head hurts!
I get what you're all saying, and I find the honesty refreshing.
Ha! Sorry, Cedars - but this is one of my pet causes here on JWN.
I want to reduce the amount of smug condescention and arrogance of the atheist crowd toward the believers. The believers are good people too - and believe it or not, are capable of rational thought. Certainly, believers have given the world most of its great art and culture.
I have a book which outlines the religious beliefs of about a dozen famous physicists - including Einstein - and none of them are bombastically dead certain in their belief or non-belief. IIRC, none could be called classic atheists in the sense of atheistic certainty.
" I thought he was 100% atheist"
ehem! He is still 100% atheist... why people dont read....... I am 100% atheist..... it means we have no god to worship.... we dont believe in the existance of a God...... it has nothing to do with the ceirtainty of his/her existance nor with the knowledge of it...
I dont know if a (god/gods/devils/santaclause/spagetthi monster/etc) exist 100% sure therefore agnostic.. but I do not think they exist.
anyway
Agnosticism isn't a middle ground in the God debate. As far as I know Dawkins understood this when he said it. Theism/Atheism is about belief. Gnosticism/Agnosticism is about knowledge. You can be both, as I am.
Agnostic Atheism = I don't know for sure, but I don't believe in a God or Gods.
Dawkins already said he was a 6.9/7 on his Theism/Atheism chart in God Delusion, 1 being to KNOW God exists and 7 to KNOW he doesn't.
When it boils down to it, the agnostic is just not sure about anything relating to god(s). I wouldn't go that far. There is a scale that Dawkins uses. 7 being absolutely sure, and he is a 6.9. That's pretty darn sure, only leaving open the possiblity that some evidence some day may surface. But as it stands, there is absolutely no evidence---so 6.9. NC
When I put that I thought he was 100% atheist it was in the context of never changing his mind not that he might believe a little bit.
My bad, I didn't make myself clear.
