Interesting opinion Dontplaceliterature. I'm not saying the regime would be open to it. I'm saying it can happen despite what they say. Just like there are JWs that still talk to their disfellowshipped loved ones, despite what the regime says. Just like there are JWs who go to college and send their kids to college, despite what the regime says. Just like there are JWs who have "wordly" friends, despite what the regime says. Just like there are JW's reading this "apostate" website, despite what the regime says.
I wish there were more JW's resisting the extreme elements within the religion
by Hermano 68 Replies latest jw friends
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WTWizard
Yes, this is a difficult religion to resist any elements. A hounder can direct, within his own congregation, that there are 135 songs you can listen to. No videos not put out by the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger. No one may have a computer. Everyone must pious-sneer during the months where there are five Saturdays or five Sundays, or when the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger suggests. Conscience matters are forbidden. Children must go out in field circus all the time they are off from school. Everyone must sit with their own congregation at a$$emblies. And so on.
And, anyone that resists these can be disfellowshipped even without directive from higher up. Now that they have that "brazen conduct" on their books, anyone who disobeys any of these directives can be dragged in for "brazen conduct". There are five Saturdays one month, you pious-sneer. Then the next month, there are five Sundays and you must pious-sneer again. The following month, there is an official pious-sneer drive, and then another month with five full weekends. Miss one month so you can get caught up on personal matters, and "brazen conduct". And they visit--if you are not home or you refuse to let them go through your music, or there is music that is not approved, "brazen conduct". You get within 100 meters of the opposite sex, "brazen conduct". And so on. With that "brazen conduct" card, resisting the most extreme elements can be extremely dangerous if you are not willing to simply walk out.
Move to another congregation? Sometimes it is possible. However, the hounders or hounder-hounder might make it "brazen conduct" if you don't report to the correct congregation or transfer your files to your proper congregation. Sometimes, if Brother Hounder in your former congregation contacts Brother Hounder in your new congregation, you can be hauled to your former congregation for "brazen conduct" for breaking their rules even if not against the new congregation, get disfellowshipped for "brazen conduct" in your former congregation, and have it announced in both congregations. Yes, if they are lazy, you might get away with establishing a pattern of skipping boasting sessions until you feel safe to pull the plug. But if you get power-hungry hounders willing to walk their walks or a hounder-hounder willing to walk his walk (instead of just talking their talks), it will not work.
The only way that works is not donating anything. Applause doesn't matter--if half the audience fails to applaud, the other half can make up for it. But, if half don't donate, the other half is going to have a miserable time making up for that. All the guilt in the world cannot make them pay money they don't have access to. And if everyone donated only to the extent they actually receive value from the organization (which is usually zero), they are going to have a miserable time staying afloat. Donating those Zero Dollar Bills and Void Checks, anonymously, is another way--fill those boxes with those, and they are going to have extra work counting rubbish and may lose good checks along with the worthless ones.
About the best you can hope for is wasting hounders' time and resources.
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soft+gentle
good points Hermano. And I know witnesses who are resisting in ways you have mentioned. It is very said to see families blacklisted (in the sense that privileges are witheld from them) because of going to university but it is truly wonderful when they finish their education. Young people are resisting getting baptized early and then not getting baptized at all.
We don't clap when talks are disgraceful and believe me they often are. I also tell everyone who asks that I am enjoying my education.
Imo the society has had its golden age and its silver age is ending too. the silver age is the age of resistance to empire building in most cultures. I believe that the WTS is entering its bronze age - the spiritual food is lacklustre and unappetising, most elders are sick and elderly
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sizemik
Cults never collapse from the R&F upward, that's why it's a cult. The control mechanisms WT has in place will always trump dissent in spite of the constant internal "war" you speak of. Dissent can only be expressed at a personal level and is invariably accompanied by an exit and shunning. Occasionally it comes with a small group.
Watchtower will crumble slowly . . . as attrition rates climb above retention and recruitment levels. WT will occasionally assist this with there own stupid bumbling . . . but the 90% of hard core at any one time, will be there till death.
You can't keep a good cult down.
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Hermano
About the best you can hope for is wasting hounders' time and resources.
Even that is a powerful way to resist. If 30% of the congregation engaged in tactics that would result in wasting "hounders'" time and resources that's a great way to wear them down. If an elder has to call 30 publishers 3 times before he can get a field service report from them that's 90 calls. If the elder tries to bring the hammer down on them they can just claim to be supper busy, stressed out, struggling due to Satan's super-demanding system, apologize, say they'll ask Jehovah to help them do better. They're not going to disfellowship for not turning in your time slip on time.
Terry had a great post about how to deal with being confronted by the elders.
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Hermano
And I know witnesses who are resisting in ways you have mentioned. It is very said to see families blacklisted (in the sense that privileges are witheld from them) because of going to university but it is truly wonderful when they finish their education. Young people are resisting getting baptized early and then not getting baptized at all.
We don't clap when talks are disgraceful and believe me they often are. I also tell everyone who asks that I am enjoying my education.
Excellent work soft+gentle. You are a silent but powerful testimony that resistance is possible. And if they withhold priviledges that's Ok. Leaders can only lead if there are followers.
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Hermano
Cults never collapse from the R&F upward, that's why it's a cult. The control mechanisms WT has in place will always trump dissent in spite of the constant internal "war" you speak of.
but the 90% of hard core at any one time, will be there till death.
You can't keep a good cult down.
Interesting thought sizemik. I don't understand how a political regime that can physically threaten and kill people can be toppled, but a cult supposedly can't. These watchtower leaders must be a lot more capable than they are given credit for, or they have some supernatural entity on their side.
I'm not sure I agree that 90% of them are hard core. I think that's what the regime WANTS them to think. The whole unity thing is propaganda. Read what hoser wrote. I think way more than 10% are of the conscious class or disagree with at least some of the regime rules. The problem is the propaganda makes them think they are the only ones and there's a problem with them. So how can we combat that propaganda?
I understand it's not easy. I just can't understand why it's impossible. If it was impossible most of the world would still be bowing down before kings right now.
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factfinder
Hermano-
if my refusal to clap did move someone to question what was being said I guess I'll never know, but as you said, maybe it helped someone else to open their eyes and realize something was wrong with what was being said.
My jw brother is an extremist, yes. If the gb told him to jump off the roof of the Empire State Building he would do it. As close minded as can be. And to him obedience to the slave is the most important thing. Even if you realize what is being said is wrong, you are to obey because the slave has Jesus'authority and speaks for Jehovah.
You cannot reason with him. He will not listen.
But I hope the increasing extremist hardline nature of the GB and its message will cause more to wake up and realize it is wrong.
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DesirousOfChange
there are more of us than we know.(conscious class)
This is evident by the string of posts called (something like) WHAT IS YOUR STANDING IN THE BORG?
I was surprised that it was predominately INACTIVE ones, and not all mean-spirited, disgruntled DF/DA former JWs.
These are the "Conscious Class". They remain on the fringes to avoid losing family & friends, but they are mentally "OUT".
Doc
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Hermano
But I hope the increasing extremist hardline nature of the GB and its message will cause more to wake up and realize it is wrong.
I see that as a possibility factfinder. The more the moderate elements resist, the harder the message to obey becomes, and the more likely that more people will wake up and realize something is wrong.
Does anyone remember when JW's were encouraged to read the bible daily? It seems to me (and those in the know please correct me if I'm wrong) that the message now is simply obey the leadership. I realize that some will do exactly what they are told, no questions asked. These are the extremists. But I suspect others aren't buying it -- at least not all the way. Is there a way to foster and encourage the moderates? Not directly, that would be too dangerous, but indirectly. Perhaps people supporting each other instead of judging each other?
I try to support the moderate JW's I have contact with. I try not to argue with them, and I resist the temptation to try to get them out because that can easily backfire. If at some point they get sick of the extremists and decide to leave, that's their choice. But while they're in I think they're a great asset to help and support other moderates in their congregations just by virtue of being there.