Mosaic Law - Can anyone help to explain

by Bells 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • vanyell
    vanyell

    mP, NC have explained Mosaic Law pretty well. Allow me to add my 2 cents.

    Mosaic Law is essentially a covenant or binding contract between the nation Israel and God. Its provisions were to separate or essentially differentiate Israel from the other nations at that time, a special people who were to be a light to the nations. A role which Israel has spectacularly failed to fulfill. Essentially the Mosaic Law wasn't as much as it was designed to punish people, but instead it serves as a guidepost to show how hard it is to reach God's standards.

    In Jesus' time, the Mosaic Law have already evolved into a huge mess of convoluted legalistic interpretations, rules and regulations. Jesus indicted them in Mark 7, saying the following:

    6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

    7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

    9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

    10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

    11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

    12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

    13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

    14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

    15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

    16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

    Which is why Jesus said in Matt 11:28-30 that He offers respite from the onerous burden of the Mosaic Law.

    28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

    Note: Notice the bolded verses. This indictes the blood doctrine that WT has been shoving down the throats of the R&F.

  • TD
    TD
    In Jesus' time, the Mosaic Law have already evolved into a huge mess of convoluted legalistic interpretations, rules and regulations. Jesus indicted them in Mark 7, saying the following.....

    Christians never seem to get tired of denigrating the Oral Law ...and yet, Jesus of the Bible accepted it as binding on multiple occasions (Matthew 12:5; 24:20; 23:16)

  • Ding
    Ding

    As to how the GB knows which parts are supposed to apply today and which aren't, the answer is, "The same way Rutherford knew that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would be resurrected in 1925."

  • james_woods
    james_woods

    The watchtower has always been quite pro-circumcision, but stops just short of actually telling witnesses to do it.

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    The Canaanite priests slashed their bodies as part of their rituals. The word Tattoo is of Maori origin. Had their culture been revealed to Moses?

    Could be Hamster--I never looked into it. I was just trying to relay what JW's thought of the law. Any statement I made in the affirmative was simply to explain this idea in a streamlined fashion. It's get old saying, JW"s think, and JW's understand it thus. This was all about them. I am aware that other religions have their own special spin on the mosaic law, and that scholars also differ in what they see. None of it has authority for me personally, so whatever conclusions are reached by those that care about those things is fine with me.

    We had Jesus quoting the law, others fighting over the law (circumcision, diet), Christians today saying the law was simply a corruption of what was originally said, others saying we just don't understand what was originally said---etc. There is no sorting it out, and it's not necessary.

    This law served a specific people at a specific time. Trying to make it translate across cultures, vast distances, and thousands of years will not work. It is all about imposing an ancient culture on vastly different cultures and people. The more natural pagan religions served the people that created them, deeply in tuned with their culture and environment. Most people were pretty accepting of this, and they didn't have huge issues with acknowledging foreign gods. Even Constantine saw no problem with offering sacrices on alters of gods whose people he had conquered. The Romans were generally tolerant of most faiths---it was the Jewish and Christian faiths that came into conflict with them.

    So my theory is this was more a political move than a religious one. Even the Jews were super proned to worshipping the gods around them, and only finally became adament about serving ONLY their god after they were dispersed. I believe that their rejection of other religions was their way of rejecting political powers that ruled over them. This theory is not really completely thought through, and I have done no reading on it, and I'm sure if I ever give it time and attention it will grow and change.

    But I see Christianity as much a political movement as a religious one. I see that when Israel had political conflict, they became more purely Jewish religiously. It's even written that way. When the Jews were not pure religiously, political powers overtook them. It always led to them hanging onto to their identity much more tightly, and becoming a great deal less flexible religiously.

    Anyway. Just some thoughts that run through my head. I see it today too---religion = politics, and when one takes power they use religion. The two cannot be separated, even as hard as JW's try to do it. The fact is, a neutral political stance IS a political stance, like it or not, and on some level a rejection of certain political powers. We are social, therefore we are political, and who we are dictates how we will act be it government or the rejection of government. Even JW's claim to be subjects of a government.

    NC

  • TD
    TD
    This law served a specific people at a specific time. Trying to make it translate across cultures, vast distances, and thousands of years will not work.

    Yep. This was true even in the first century. Keeping the Law relevant in a changing world was what the Pharisee movement was all about.

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Yeah. I've been saying for a long time that the bible god just got too big. It is impossible for it to be a one-size-fits-all, and that is why we have so many versions of the supposedly same god, and so many takes on things like the mosaic law. I dislike religion in general, but these mega religions are a travesty. I have much more tolerance for pagan belief, because it at least makes sense to me. People fitting their beliefs around their experiences, and taking what they need from them. Those beliefs fit the believers, instead of believers needing to fit into a foreign mold.

    NC

  • vanyell
    vanyell

    @TD Christians never seem to get tired of denigrating the Oral Law ...and yet, Jesus of the Bible accepted it as binding on multiple occasions (Matthew 12:5; 24:20; 23:16)

    I beg to disagree. Jesus accepts the Torah(Written Law) as binding. Remember He said that He came to fulfill the Law. What Jesus was against was the myriad of rules and regulations that the Pharisees and Sadducees imposed ON TOP of the Torah (Oral Law or the Talmud). ref. http://www.jewfaq.org/torah.htm

    Matt 12:5 - keyword "read".

  • TD
    TD
    I beg to disagree. Jesus accepts the Torah(Written Law) as binding. Remember He said that He came to fulfill the Law. What Jesus was against was the myriad of rules and regulations that the Pharisees and Sadducees imposed ON TOP of the Torah (Oral Law or the Talmud)

    Jesus accepted both as binding. Here's a simple example:

    At Matthew 12:11, Jesus says, "What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it shall fall into a pit on the sabbath, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?"

    That was a direct allusion to a principle of rabbinical interpretation that was later codified as pikuach nefesh --Literally "Uncovering life" If an occupied building collapses on the Sabbath, what do you do? Do you work to rescue the survivors (Uncovering life) or do you let them die? Which is more important: the implicit requirement to preserve life or the explicit requirement to keep the Sabbath?

    The answer to that question is not in the Torah, it's in the Oral Law. And Jesus accepted it as binding.

    As a general observation, I think when people speak of the "myriad of rules and regulations" of the Pharisees (..and Sadducees????) they're failing to grasp one of the biggest distinctions between historical Christianity and Judaism.

    The Law was not just a code of moral conduct, it was a civil, criminal and penal code covering both high and low justice because Israel was a sovereign nation for fairly long periods of its existence. Christianity on the other hand, was born at the height of the brutal Pax Romana and was molded around the constraints imposed by that State.

    For example, both Christianity and Judaism condemn the crime of murder. But what is murder? How do you know when a murder has occurred? What do you do when a murder has occurred? What do you do with the murderer once you've caught him?

    Stop and think about how complicated things get when there is a death penalty involved or how complicated a crime murder can be inasmuch as there are many diferent degrees and levels of culpability. Look at the criminal code in your country covering the crime of murder. I would be willing to be that it's not light reading.

    Christianity leaves all of those messy details to the State. Judaism did not. So it is really unfair to condemn the level of detail in the Oral Law. Desecration of the Sabbath carried a very real, very severe penalty for a pretty big chunk of Jewish history. When a physical penalty is involved, people have both the need and the right to have every single detail spelled out, especially when that penalty is death. The Law had to be interpreted over and over as the centuries passed and new situations arose and those interpretations established a body of precedent. Like a snowball with the Torah as its core, the Oral Law was born.

    To pretend that the Law can be interpreted by a simple, mechanical reading without human judges and a corpus of prior precident to refer to is really a logical fallacy called dicto simpliciter.

    What any particular law says is not always what the law actually means. That idea might sound like doublethink at first, but it's a basic principle of every legal system and there are several very valid reasons for this.

    First: A simple, mechanical reading of law can run counter to what the law was actually intended to accomplish. Here's a simple example to illustrate this:

    There are certain plants in the American southwest that are protected by law. These plants may not be moved or transported without a permit. Let's assume you're walking your dog around a construction site after hours one evening and you see a young saguaro cactus that has been toppled by a bulldozer and then rolled into a trash heap. The saguaro is one of these protected plants. Let's further assume that you're outraged by this and you put this doomed saguaro in your truck and take it miles and miles out into the desert and replant it. Have you broken the law? Based on the facial evidence, a police officer might think so, but if you can clearly document what you did, (Pictures would be a good idea) it's doubtful if a judge would ever agree with him. The purpose of the law is to protect that plant and in this hypothetical situation that is exactly what you did. A police officer knows what the law says. A police officer does not necessarily know what the law means.

    Second: A law may be applied to a situation beyond its intended limits. Let's take another example:

    Suppose that a backpacker is stranded in a remote area by an unexpected blizzard. He breaks into an unoccupied cabin and waits for two days until the storm abates and he may safely leave. During this time, he consumes his unknown benefactor’s food, burns his wood to keep warm, and even sleeps in his bed. While we would recognize that this individual would be obligated to monetarily compensate the owner of the cabin, he would not automatically be adjudged as a thief. American law, through such rulings as Vincent v. Lake Erie Transportation Co. and Ploof v. Putnam has long recognized that laws whose purpose is to protect property are not intended to do so at the expense of life.

    To be fair and accurate to believers, there was a controversy in Jesus' day between two factions of the Phraisees. There was a hard-line faction who interpreted the Law harshly and a liberal faction who interpreted the Law more along the lines of Jesus' approach

    In rabbinic literature, these were known as Bet Hillel and Bet Shammai: The story goes like this:

    A Gentile came to Shammai with the strange request that he be taught the entire Torah, but that it be done during the time he could stand on one foot. Shammai, a surveyor by trade, chased him away, swinging a cubit stick. When this Gentile approached Hillel with the same request, instead of being scolded for such an impudent demand, he was told, "What is hateful to you, do not to your fellowman. This is the entire Torah. All the rest is commentary — now go and study."

    The parallels with Hillel’s statement are readily recognized in Jesus’ statement in Matthew 7:12 and Paul’s "summary" in Galatians 5:14. Hillel's negative formulation of Jesus' Golden Rule is sometimes referred to as the "Silver Rule". It, in turn, is derived from even earlier Jewish tradition: "Do to no one what you would not want done to you." (Tobit 4:15)

    I think it's easy to read the NT and assume that 'Pharisees' meant all pharisees and overlook the fact that many agreed with Jesus as evidenced by the number of early converts to Christianity who were pharisees.

  • OldGenerationDude
    OldGenerationDude

    For the most part, the answer as to which of the laws from Torah apply in the case of the Governing Body's teachings is that there is no fast rule. The Governing Body picks and chooses as it pleases, as if they were in a cafeteria, relying on their own authority. That body then serves whatever “goodies” it needs from Mosaic Law to back its own views while ignoring the rest. But keep in mind that since they consider themselves God’s only Authority on the planet, what they consider "applicable" today can be considered "garbage" tomorrow.

    In other words, there is no logic. It’s all done on a whim.

    As to the belief of theists in regard to the inspiration of the Mosaic Law and where it came from, that is problematic for the Watchtower. Judeo-Christian scholarship and theology is in agreement that the list of regulations within the Mosaic Law grew as the years passed. Since Jews and Christians believe that this editing and interpolation process of composing the Torah was part of the inspiration process (unlike the “dictation process” suggested and believed in by the Governing Body and the Jehovah’s Witnesses), they have “rules” based on their own critical source studies as to what was an “original” law, and what grew out of Law but still became accepted as part of the received and canonical text.

    The rules and regulations in the Law as to what was to be considered “clean” and “unclean” were added by a well-functioning priesthood centuries after Moses. While the principle of the priesthood being separate is considered to be direct from YHWH, the rest of the interpolated material reflects Jewish practice that became commonplace only when a permanent Temple became central to Judaism. True, this meant incorporating religious tradition into the text, but it isn’t the type of “tradition” the Governing Body thinks it is. This type of "tradition" is considered inspired by Jews and Christians.

    The word “tradition” in the Bible is an old rendition and should be translated using the modern word “theology” or “doctrine.” Because of relying on an archaic translation of the word “tradition,” as in the New World Translation at Mark chapter 7, they confuse Jewish and Apostolic Tradition with the type Jesus condemned. This very same tradition or traditionally-held “theology” has helped both Jews and Christians in trying to discern what is an unchangeable principle of the Mosaic Law and what laws therein came from Temple or liturgical practice later on in history (and thus not directly from God).

    Because the Governing Body has made the constant mistake of declaring all “tradition” as human-based, their attempt at ‘which laws to observe and which to ignore’ is nothing but the results from their own guessing game. As the apostle Paul wrote: “Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.” (2 Thessalonians 2:17, emphasis added.) Some traditions (again meaning “doctrines” or “theology”) are thus clearly considered inspired in the Bible itself. And even the Governing Body accepts some tradition, such as the “tradition” that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John (and no other books) make up the complete collection of inspired Gospels (there are no verses in the Bible on which to use to come to this conclusion). Other traditions, like the declaring of certain things as “qorban,” were human-made loopholes and thus not inspired. (Mark 7:9-13) Ignoring Apostolic Tradition (the type spoken of in 2 Thessalonians by Paul), the Governing Body cannot tell the difference between what is what in either Torah or the rest of Holy Writ.

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