I've already answered that question - HMTM
Genuinely I don't know where you did that.
Could you quickly copy-paste your comment please?
Disowning the God of the OT is not an Option
by cofty 94 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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cofty
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cofty
Do you mean when you said...
God dealt with them in their time and not ours.
So the question remains why did god not teach them to be better than that?
Why did he tell them to take slaves, to commit genocide and infanticide?
Or are you saying that you agree with Willmarite's tactic of cherry-picking verses?
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Heaven
The Hebrews and Christians have very different ideas about God. The Hebrews believed God to be all things, both good and bad. They believed that bad things happened when you did not obey the one true God, Yahweh. And he needed appeasing... lots of appeasing.
But the 'Hebrew Bible' doesn't read very well if you want to call Yahweh our 'father' and 'loving'. The logic of his actions doesn't flow.
Logic and reasoning debunk the moral ideals of Yahweh, as well as all religious dogma and doctrine that has sprung up out of interpreting holy foundational materials such as the Bible and Qu'ran that are not accurate accounts of history or the natural world, and which are largely based on myth.
You have to abandon these disciplines to make any sense of the holy realm.
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willmarite
I'm not sure why "cherry picking" is cast in a negative light. Do not all of us do this with most everything? Accept the good discard the rest only makes sense. When I go out to my orchard I don't reason "Well I've got to eat every apple out there even if it is filled with insects or I can't eat anything!" Pure foolishness. Does an atheist have to accept every thing that Richard Dawkins has ever said or reject everything he has ever said? Or does he "cherry pick" his statements accepting what makes sense and leaving the rest?
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Viviane
I'm not sure why "cherry picking" is cast in a negative light.
Because you are asking people to accept "truth" from a book, believe in it and worship invisible people whom you cannot describe in any consistent way and live by those standards as a prerequisite for not dying for all time, being tortured forever or whatever, depending upon which part you cherry pick.
When I go out to my orchard I don't reason "Well I've got to eat every apple out there even if it is filled with insects or I can't eat anything!" Pure foolishness.
It is. It's also not at all the same thing as cherry picking the parts of the Bible you believe and would have us believe.
Does an atheist have to accept every thing that Richard Dawkins has ever said or reject everything he has ever said? Or does he "cherry pick" his statements accepting what makes sense and leaving the rest?
Atheism has nothing to do with accepting Richard Dawkins or what he says.
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willmarite
Viviane - I never thought someone could so misunderstand my point of view. I'm not asking anyone to accept truth from a book.
Take for instance just one thought from what Jesus taught. Do onto others as you would have them do unto you. Do not quote me something else that Jesus supposedly said and you disagree with. Consider just this one part. Is it an idea that can help people? Or is it pure garbage? Is everything Jesus said garbage and you disagree with it 100%?
If because of your past you can't accept anything that is contained in the bible that is fine. Go to other spiritual teachings or go to self-help books and yes go cherry pick. Accept what resonates with you and leave the rest.
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Viviane
Viviane - I never thought someone could so misunderstand my point of view. I'm not asking anyone to accept truth from a book.
You write this....
Take for instance just one thought from what Jesus taught. Do onto others as you would have them do unto you. Do not quote me something else that Jesus supposedly said and you disagree with. Consider just this one part. Is it an idea that can help people? Or is it pure garbage?
So, you DO want me to consider what Jesus said. You see value in it, you think others should also. You ARE cherry picking and asking others to agree, as all Christians do. Why do you claim I misunderstood that?
BTW, Jesus taught that, true, but it wasn't his idea. It was around for thousands of years before him. And it's garbage. It's arrogant and makes assumptions about people.
If because of your past you can't accept anything that is contained in the bible that is fine. Go to other spiritual teachings or go to self-help books and yes go cherry pick. Accept what resonates with you and leave the rest.
And here is an example of you arrogantly and pretending to know anything about me, what I need and how I should proceed.
Arrogance combined with ignorance wrapped in the faux cloak of humility seems to be a hallmark of Christianity, fundamentalist or otherwise.
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CalebInFloroda
Vivian and others who are “doubting” what I claim to be or whatever based on my words.
I personally don’t believe that my views are right.
After my experience with the Jehovah’s Witnesses I know that I have the ability to choose the wrong, believe I am in the right while believing in the wrong, and that I can reason along lines to keep me blindly in this wrong course.
After leaving the Watchtower I no longer believe that I am a good judge or the person to ask on what is definitively true or not.
It is great that people have a place to argue and present their views here, but there is a lot of disrespect for those of other views. I don’t want to be that way, and I apologize if that may be what some see in my comments as that was not intended.
My resolve for myself: Do more than reject Witness doctrine. Reject Witness attitudes, their belief that one can really possess the ultimate truth and that I therefore have a right to bash or demonize the convictions of others.
I feel I don’t belong here, so I will move on. Peace to you all, whatever you believe or do not. Thank you for the brief time of letting me hear your views and letting me share my own.
Just remember: if any of us are ex-JWs then we are the last people on earth who should recommend a view or conviction as true or more correct than another and state that someone else’s view is incorrect. Our track record shows we aren’t very good at that since it wasn’t long ago we were saying that about our Watchtower beliefs. On the basis of the fact of our life’s record in that area, we don’t have the evidence to support that we can’t be fooled or won’t fool ourselves into believing we are right in what we believe even today. I remind myself that I am my worst enemy in this area each and everyday since I left the Kingdom Hall.
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Viviane
I personally don’t believe that my views are right.
After my experience with the Jehovah’s Witnesses I know that I have the ability to choose the wrong, believe I am in the right while believing in the wrong, and that I can reason along lines to keep me blindly in this wrong course.You choose to hold views that you know are wrong? That's .... weird.
It is great that people have a place to argue and present their views here, but there is a lot of disrespect for those of other views. I don’t want to be that way, and I apologize if that may be what some see in my comments as that was not intended.
There is no respect for woo and mysticism and pretending you said something when you didn't. Totally different.
Just remember: if any of us are ex-JWs then we are the last people on earth who should recommend a view or conviction as true or more correct than another and state that someone else’s view is incorrect. Our track record shows we aren’t very good at that since it wasn’t long ago we were saying that about our Watchtower beliefs.
Please speak only for yourself and don't pretend to speak for others, people you don't know, can't possibly know or know anything about and about who you are, at best, making things up about. You only get to speak for yourself.
I feel I don’t belong here, so I will move on
Bye.
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JWINQUESTION
"I feel I don’t belong here, so I will move on. Peace to you all, whatever you believe or do not. Thank you for the brief time of letting me hear your views and letting me share my own."
Peace to you to from an atheist brother. It is good to hear everyone's views without the bickering and fighting. Sometime people forget how to be tactful and kind towards other people when explaining their beliefs.
One thing before you leave is I suggest you keep doing your research and keep learning. Keep being open. Don't let negativity from others on here or anywhere else get to you. Hope you find your way.