Circumcision banned in Germany - it's about time.

by Joey Jo-Jo 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Farkel

  The "it's about time" quip that really bothers me. That statement is the product of underdeveloped reasoning skills.

  : The male foreskin was put there for a purpose.

  Right. So were wisdom teeth and almost everyone has them extracted because of the incredible pain they inflict in our (now) smaller jaws. Maybe the government should ban the extraction of wisdom teeth as "mutilation." Hymens were also "put there for a purpose." Maybe we should prosecute men who break them on their wedding night. What about women who put tupperware in their boobs? Pierce their ears, bellybuttons, lips and tongues? Mutilate their bodies with ink? Let's also go after them. It's insanity.

  Anyone know was "smegma" is? Circumcision prevents that.

  This ruling is insane. I watched my youngest son get circumcised when he was one or two or three weeks old. The doctor put some sort of a cap over his thingy and then made a swift cut to remove the skin. It bled, but very little. My little boy cried but not for long.

  My wife at the time (we were not dubs) and I had a discussion about whether we should circumcise our son or not. Based upon my own experiences as a youngster, when we group-showered in Junior High and High School Gym classes, the uncircumcised boys got teased because there were so very few of them. It was for that reason and no other than we decided to have our son circumcised. Religious or hygenic reasons didn't even enter into the discussion.

  To compare male vs. female circumcision is a huge strawman argument. Those two practices are not even in the same universe, let alone a rational discussion on male circumcision.

  It is outrageous to me that a government can dictate whether or not parents can make these kind of decisions. They'll be telling you next what you MUST and MUST NOT eat, and what kind of toilet paper they will permit you to use.

  I agree that if a child is not healthy and there ARE health risks with a circumcision (e.g hemophilia, et.al.) that procedure should not be done. Wise or at least caring parents, if informed of those risks one would think would make the choice not to have it done. In that case, religious fanatic parents should be restrained from having it done.

  I haven't read the German Law, but prima facie, I think it is Government overreach into parental rights, to put it mildly.

  Farkel
• 

  MrFreeze

  Haha cofty, just makin' a little joke....
• 

  cofty

  Farkel you accuse others of faulty reasoning but some of your points are way off the mark.

  First the German govt haven't passed any laws about this. A German court made a ruling that will no doubt be challenged all the way to the European Supreme court if necessary.

  There is no comparison with impacted wisdom teeth. Circumcision for medical reasons is not being challenged.

  Adults are free to choose to mutilate their bodies however they wish - parents are not free to mutilate their children.

  There is no hygene probems if a boy is taught how to keep himself clean.

  What the German judge has ruled is that parents are not free to chop of parts of their child's anatomy for reasons of superstition. It is blatantly obvious that this is a wise decision but one that will almost certainly be overturned by higher courts who fear the backlash from Jewish and Muslim communities.
• 

  cofty

  Haha cofty, just makin' a little joke....

  I am no fan of the German govt but any comparison with the 3rd Reich could hardly be more wrong.
• 

  Aeiouy

  Farkel, well said.

  Anyone ever hear of phimosis? Well, I had it. And at age 22 I had to get the ol' prepuce wacked off because of it. Sex was incredibly painful, as in, indescribably painful to the point I couldn't have sex. And if you've ever had surgery and thought it hurt, try again. There is nothing as painful as having a doctor scrape off a piece of skin that has fused to one of the most sensitive areas of the human body. I was out of work for two weeks. It took another 2 months to even think about sex.

  Circumcision is not abuse. It is a kindness. I wish to (God?) that my parents had decided to circumcise me. To those who slam circumcision: it is my opinion that you are incredibly uneducated on the subject. Just sayin.

  Aeiouy
• 

  cofty

  Aeiouy that is like saying a baby should have his appendix removed just in case it becomes infected later.
• 

  Farkel

  cofty,

  You said:

  : What the German judge has ruled is that parents are not free to chop of parts of their child's anatomy for reasons of superstition

  Well then, who determines what is superstition and what is not? If an irrational religious belief is determined by a Court to be a superstition, then that leads to the slipperly slope of Courts trying to regulate almost ALL religious beliefs, since superstition = most religious beliefs.

  I think you are missing a much more important issue here: overreaching Governmental authority into family matters involving relatively minor matters.

  Farkel
• 

  cofty

  Farkel - A court doesn't need to get into those sort of distinctions. Cutting a baby for reasons other than medical ones is not acceptable. The fact that millions of Jews and Muslims have done this thing for millennia doesn't make it right.

  There seems to be a culture of circumcision in USA that isn't the case in Europe. Here babies are only circumcised for religious reasons or specific medical conditions.

  Evidence for loss of sensitivity as a result of circumcision is compelling.
• 

  Joey Jo-Jo

  This is getting stupid

  FlyingHighNow: Sorry I got my wires crossed, I am a bit upsett with something that has nothing to do with this topic so I hope this does not come out too bitter. As cofty pointed the issue in Germany is not that mutilating a boys penis is wrong, its that the legal guardians should not have a say, second - many that do these things are for religious purposes but thanks to good ol cognitive dissonance you see a lot of HORSESHIT positiving mutilation on the internet (its hygienic, sex is the same - BULLSHIT), read some peer review articles on the internet written by actuall doctors on circumcision. Third - the foreskin is to PREVENT disease, the thing about evolution its that it does the most to improve ourselves (although there can be defects), how on earth can you compare mutilation to piercing, cutting the foreskin is like cutting the ear flap completly off, they both have functions. Now in adulthood if the person is to remove his skin, have a sex change or get tatoos is completly up to them, I dont care its their bodies but they are old enought to look into the matter they will be undertaking to fully understand it and its consequences.

  Then you wrote:

  Something to keep in mind, all those engaging in high emotions over this, I've asked some men I know how they feel about being circumcised as babies. All of them are very happy that their parents did this for them. And it is true that many women prefer circumcised men.

  It looks like you still carrie some JW baggage still with you, I have made some videos on cognitive dissonance but let me put this in another manner, are not the blind happy? are not the deaf happy? or any handicap? You will come up with people that they will say they are very happy, there was a documentary on tv about deaf people are happier because they prefer sign language as a better means of communication, the human brain does some interesting things to keep thoughts positive. Again the reality is very different, a jw might say they are very happy but are they really? they might say that they do good but do they really? So you are going by what people say, that is most likely part of their self concept, statistically it would be bias to conclude that the majority of circumcised people who are happy because a - they dont know any better b - doctors say otherwise c- nobody likes their invisible or visible parent to be wrong, or their intelligence offended.

  Farkel: It is outrageous to me that a government can dictate whether or not parents can make these kind of decisions. They'll be telling you next what you MUST and MUST NOT eat, and what kind of toilet paper they will permit you to use.

  By your logic, the government should not intervene when a parent refuses a blood transfusion, should not intervene if you give in tatoos or get him to smoke, take drugs and drink alcohool, its a double standard Farkel.

  Anyone know was "smegma" is? Circumcision prevents that. Did you know taking showers also prevents (old) smegma, oh and did you know that women produce smegma! and that smegma use is for lubrication!!!
• 

  Razziel

  "And how many of you who are circumcised from infancy enjoy sex incredibly much? Do you think you are not sensitive enough?"

  Many of us already climax fast enough as it is, no added sensitivity needed, thanks!