Marital problems - advice (or support) please

by jamesmahon 63 Replies latest social family

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  jamesmahon

  Thanks all.

  To give a bit more background, she has tried meds but one made her suicidal and the other just made her really tired and even more grouchy. She has been to counselling and currently going through CBT. She will not go to marriage counselling.

  She has her issues - her mum is a middle class alcoholic and her dad has had nothing to do with her since she was 17 (never met her dad but I know he only speaks with one of his 6 children so it isn't just her). She has low self esteem and knows this - no confidence etc. I have tried to support her through this for years and fully understand why the past has influenced the way she is. However, this gives her no right to behave the she does.

  I completely understand why she feels the way she does about herself. I understand why this makes her treat me the way she does. It isn't rocket science. The irony is that understnading this and actually trying to be a nice guy and help her through it just makes it worse.

  Bubblegum - appreciate what you are saying but in this case she has said I give her too much attention and it is suffocating. Given she has given me no attention for years and never said anything nice about me for years this is a bit rich.

  "you can still be a part of your children's lives". I know you don't mean to but this bit annoyed me a bit. There is still this expectation that the Dad is a 'part' player in children's lives and mum is most important. As I said, I provide at least the same amount of time (and I suspect substantially more) looking after the children then she does. I don't want to be 'part' of their lives. I have a right to be integral to it whilst they are children which to me means being there for them all the time - not 3 or 4 days a week. I also could not help thinking that your first line 'if everything you say is true' really means 'well, there are two sides and if we heard his wife she would say differently'. This annoys the hell out of me. Would you think the same if it was her telling the same story? Would you be telling her that she can still be part of their lives? No, you would be telling her to kick me out no doubt for being a jealous controlling misogynist. Sorry, I know that you meant well but women can be as selfish and manipulative as men can be and sometimes it is entirely one person's fault in a relationship. I have tried really hard to find out what I can do to change. My wife says nothing. She says there is nothing I have done.

  I have been to counselling myself. The counsellor advised me to get legal advice (I know this was inappropriate of her but still). Now maybe I am a good lier and could fool the counsellor but honestly I have agonised over what I have done wrong and other than care too much and try to help I can see nothing.

  Anyway, sorry bubblegum. I know you mean well. Just all the things you are saying that she may feel - unwanted, unattractive etc. is exactly how she has made me feel for years and even though I talked to her about this she never did anything (apart from try to start an affair twice).
• 

  PaintedToeNail

  james-She may still be dealing with PN. I had it for quite a few years, and didn't realize what it was, even though it was staring me in the face. I ended up on Paxil, but only because I was seeing a pain doctor and he was trying to break the cycle of pain. One day, several weeks after starting Paxil, I realized I was smiling, and for no reason! Everything finally clicked together. I have been on Paxil most of the years since.

  Also, oddly enough, maybe she wants you to take the place of her father, and tell her an emphatic "NO"! No, you won't treat me this way. No, you move out of the bedroom. No, you will not make me and the kids miserable, we are going to the park or lake or wherever. No, you are not coming with us.
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  Aussie Oz

  the best you can hope for (other than her doing a 180) is 50/50 care of the children and move on. I know you don't want to hear it.

  i refused to stay in an unhappy marriage, one where my wife would have hated me day and night, 'for the sake of the children'. I believed that it really would teach the children the wrong lessons...stay unhappy to make others happy. That does not work. I had (JW) teenagers in households like you discribe tell me that they just wished their parents had the guts to end it instead of making the fake happy family that made them miserable.

  I can't say i have not at times wished i had stayed for the kids sake, but it is very rare. In the end, despite my wifes begging (even though she couldn't stand me) i said NO. I did reap the whirlwind of hate but I have had 14 years of rebuliding, during which time i have had a good happy life.

  the real regret, is not having the balls and brains to fight for 50/50 custody at the start instead of letting myself get walked over big time.

  Sometimes it just has to end, no blame. shit happens, people change. You both have the right to be happy and that probably means what you don't want. You are in a tough place and there are no easy answers.

  sometimes only one gets happy again. my ex has remained bitter and vindictive, has alienated her kids. She didn't move on (even though she has remarried). I did. It was a choice. A tough one.

  all the best

  Oz
• 

  bats in the belfry

  You need to identify your type of toxic relationship to come out of it on top.
• 

  Lozhasleft

  Your wife doesn't deserve you, but I can see that you already realise this. She maybe thinks that if she can get you out, and not lose the financial perks, she'll find happiness. She won't at all, not unless she comes to terms with herself instead of using you as the scapegoat for her personal issues and misery. I stayed in a very controlling and sick marriage for way too long...almost 30 years...mostly for my kids, but also cos I believed I could fix him, help him, make him better, make it work, so I know how you feel. The kids ended up very resentful with me for staying so long, what an irony!

  My advice? Very simple and direct. Leave her. Do it with legal support so that you get as much as possible access to your children and so that you protect yourself. Despite your best intentions and effort she has made it impossible for your family to flourish so I'd hardly think of supporting her financially anymore than you must. Be the good father you are and your children will see it and know it. At present they see this relationship's dilemma distracting you both a great deal of the time, it's inevitable. Break free of it and give them your whole attention, enjoy some freedom, and hopefully meet a lovely lady who is able to love and appreciate you.

  Don't waste anymore of your life...you will only regret it, trust me.

  Loz x
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  jamesmahon

  Thanks everyone. Helps to know others have been through similar. I guess I know that I will end up having to leave and my mind is swing round to that being the conclusion and trying to work out the best thing for the children. Will be going for at least 50% custody to begin with. I know as my children get older and when they have a choice they will want to live with me. They already want to do eveything with me anyway much to the chargrin of their mother. In the short term I think building a little house in the garden for me might be a good interim measure to get the children used to me not being in the house all the time.

  I guess the other reason why I have wanted to keep it together is for my JW nephew. Although I have no contact with him when he turns 18 I am getting in touch. I wanted to show him that non-JWs can lead normal, happy lives and just concerned now he will look and think what a dysfunctional life I have. Bit odd I know but there you go.
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  sinedie

  Hello

  I didn’t want to write an essay on your thread so I’ve sent you PM.
• 

  Quandry

  Are you sure that your wife is not just really bored and seeking attention? You say you work from home. Perhaps you've just never had breathing room from each other.

  She also seems insecure...hesitant to take a job but feels like you are suffocating her. She certainly lacks self esteem, and may feel like she has no life other than house cleaning, etc. She may envy your job. It couldn't help that she feels rejected by her father. Perhaps she feels unloved and is looking for validation of yours.

  Before you throw in the towel, why not try a few experiments? You don't have to talk with her, but find something to complement each day. Also, see if there's a place away from home where you can do some of your work.

  At the same time, find somewhere for the whole family to go, such as a museum. You don't have to have long conversations with her, but invite her along. Just make a family memory that is pleasant.

  It would be good if there were some volunteer organization or other group that your wife could get involved in to give her a sense of autonomy and fulfillment.

  Please take some time and be patient. Don't lose your family unit too quickly if there is a remedy.

  Hope for the best for you all.
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  Heaven

  Hi James... I am not a counsellor but from the things you've said, I'd say your wife has enormous baggage from her childhood as well as the religion. I believe she is treating you badly to force you to leave, which, if this does happen, will validate her inner feelings that everyone leaves her and is bad and it's not her fault so she doesn't have to do anything about her problems. And her behaviours and actions are also justified.

  My ex was like this. I enlikened him to a teenage boy who is in a relationship with a girl he no longer wants to be with. So he just treats her like crap until she leaves. This is what your wife is doing to you.

  Since she is unwilling to go for counselling this says she:

  a) Does not see herself as having any responsibility in the problem (aka, you are the one who is solely to blame).

  b) She does not want to fix the problem(s).

  c) She wants to have someone to beat up emotionally, psychologically.

  If your wife is unwilling to go for counselling, things will only get worse. So you have a choice to make as to whether you can stand this kind of hell for the children or not.

  I feel very badly for you. But what I had to finally accept in my marriage was... a leopard cannot change its spots. My ex still has his issues and always will. I have tried to be understanding as much as I could. I tried to look at him as someone with a problem who needs help.

  For me, I could not stay. Luckily, we had no children. My compromise was to remain 'friends' with him as much as my energy reserves allows me. He actually respects me more now than he did when I was his wife. This is because of the way I handled our divorce and subsequent after-marriage relationship as 'friends'.

  It is very possible that your wife does not know what she really wants in life. My ex is also like this. She has not yet done an indepth, internal audit of who she is, the type of person she wants to be, and what she would like to accomplish in her life. I fully believe the Watchtower destroys this in a person. Coupled with her unpleasant childhood, this is not a good combo. Outside of marriage counselling, your wife, herself, needs her own personal counselling. Without this, I am doubtful things will change for the better. She has to want them to change. You can only hope she makes this decision.

  Just a question for you... do you know what your wife's "Love Languages" are? When my ex went for a few counselling sessions, his counsellor had him read "The 5 Love Languages" by Dr. Gary Chapman. I read it too. Maybe it will help you communicate with her in a non-verbal manner.
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  jamesmahon

  Thanks Heaven. Will get back more fully later but just to let you know she has never been a JW and I had left well before I met her. One of those cases which is not JW related although your analysis is correct I feel.