Not interested. *closes the door*
Any HR Executive on board ? (How do you manage to not to celebrate employee
by zatang 57 Replies latest jw friends
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botchtowersociety
even birthdays of us filthy kuffar.
That's uncalled for, especially when it comes to a brand new poster with a question who has not behaved offensively in any way.
To ensure all users feel safe and keen to participate, please avoid:
Inciting hatred on the basis of... religion
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zatang
"And here I suspect we have found the true purpose of the thread. A devout, fundamentalist Muslim is certainly not going to take ex-JW (or active-JW) advice on how to behave at work on religious matters. Unless, of course, they told him to just do whatever fundamentalist Islam tells him to.
I believe we have here a not-so-subtle attempt to preach a particular brand of Islam."
@james-woods: Now let the posters decide who is doing the prejudice, you are openly revealing yours. I never came here with a hidden intention, otherwise I would have posed as a JW, instead of a Muslim. I also revealed my actual geographical location. How do you know what a devout should have done ? Isn't it stereotyping ? I came here because of the commonality of prohibition of celebrating birthdays in faith of JW and in Islam. I came here to seek genuine experiences of people who may have faced similar situations.
I am not here to preach any kind of Islam, yet if asked, I won't shy from letting the other person know my belief. I don't do internet preaching and I don't indulge in subtle preaching.
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zatang
Let me ask you something, Zatang.
Are you aware that you are getting more reasonable advice here than if you HAD made it to an "active" or "PRO-JW" board?
The only thing an active JW poster would have done is to try to convert you into a JW. They could care less if you celebrate birthdays (as a Muslim) or not.
They just want to convert everybody to their own religion.
(sound familiar?)
@james_wood: The response I am getting are sure rational and reasonable but How do I know when I never visited any pro or active JW site ? This site come up in the first page of google search and I thought it a JW site. I never chatted with any JW before so i can't guess what they could have done to me
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james_woods
Zatang, the JW religion forbids active JWs from forming or joining independent (outside the Watchtower Society) pro-JW discussion groups for fear that the Watchtower society will lose control of their followers.
Like I said before - you have a choice to make: Either decide to compromise on the birthday issue, or do not take the job.
Some things really are just that simple.
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Band on the Run
The vast majority of people who post here are American, British, Canadian, and Australian. Christian traditions are strong in these countires. We are not Christian nations but the majority are Christian. Celebrating birthdays is the norm. Pakistan and India may have a very different culture.
Martyrdom is a strong tradition in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. If you feel too compromised, it is a personal conscience matter. Your right to not celebrate your birthday is probably inviolable as a product of British common law. YOu have no righ to impose your religion on your employer.
Perhaps we are sharp with you. Most of us were forbidden to celebrate birthdays when we ached to do so. Speaking for myself, it was very painful.
There are Christian norms that I would not violate. They are the important ones. Cultural beliefs or nonessential doctrines are not that important to me, and I do bend. I am American and in a country as diverse as America, others are bending their beliefs so we can have a civil society.
You have the right not to celebrate. It is crazy to expect a company to bend to your will. This was an issue you should have thought about before obtaining your MBA, which must have been expensive and hard work, too.
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Yan Bibiyan
zatang, welcome to the board.
Let me try to give you a different perspective.
First off, we can agree that all people, as biological creatures, are created equal, right? This will help level the field.
Imagine that there is a company owned and operated by devout muslims and the norm and corporate culture there is to never celebrate personal birthdays, as forbidden by the faith.
Imagine there is an open position for someone in HR and one of the applicants is a person of faith/creed that celebrates birthdays. This person goes off and asks a discussion board, what could they do to take the job (because they need the money) and at the same time to have everyone else at the company celebrate their birthday.
What would you answer this person if you were asked the question directly?
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Miles3
Those who do, they either don’t care about or don’t know about it. Also, I or any of the Muslim I know from family/friends, call non-Muslims as ‘filthy kuffar’. We call them by their proper names and we find it disrespectful and offending to label someone as such. Quran prohibits us to do so in the following verse
The Noble Qur'an - Al-Hujurat 49:11
“O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong”
Zatang, that verse is adressed at believers ("O ye who believe", and the use of "each other"), and never adresses the issue of derogatory terms towards unbelievers. That is further indicated by "Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed" - ill seeming when used of one "after he has believed". So your statement "Quran prohibits us to do so in the following verse" isn't supported by the verse you cite here. Thus, while you personnaly don't condomne the behavior, you have done nothing to prove the Qur'an is against it.
Isn't it stereotyping ? I came here because of the commonality of prohibition of celebrating birthdays in faith of JW and in Islam.
For reference, the reason JW don't celebrate birthdays is not religious. The reason is that, as for all fondamentalists, the religion is about controlling others, and control need suppression of individuality. Birthdays is a way to tell a kid he's important, and you're happy he's been born. This goes against fondamentalists' objectives, because it gives self-confidence to kids, and somebody that grows in a nurturing and asserting environment is less inclined to accept indoctrination without questioning it.
That control issue is the base to the multitude of rules fondamentalist exhibit - unlike fundamentalists God is not a puny insecure being that would feel threatened because, somewhere, some kid's cake has tiny candles over it, and somehow thousands of years ago in a small contry nobody cares about some shepherds followed a ritual that could be misconstructed to ressemble the candles thing. Birthdays today have nothing to do with pagan worship, and any decent look would show that weddings, wedding aniversaries, new babies, etc ..., all things you said you would agree with, are mared with plenty of things you could link to some pagan practice somewhere in history.
Trust us, we've been there, done that, got the fondamentalist T-Shirt, and were used to defend the birthday ban with your same arguments.
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likeabird
"I have recently graduated in MBA in HR. I intend to join as a HR Executive as trainee. One of the responsibilites of a HR executive is to indulge in employee engagment activies, one of which is to celebrate the birthdays of employee. Since, my religious beliefs don't allow me to celebrate brithdays, i am very much frustrated over taking a job offer in this field."
Zatang,
Not sure the fully active JW you are looking for will actually be able to help you.
1. Few will have had the opportunity to pursue education to the level you have.
and consequently
2. Will not have the qualifications to get this kind of job.
3. For fully active JWs that do find themselves offered a similar position to the one you have been offered and adhere strongly to their beliefs as you do, they would be questioning not only the birthday problem, but also the amount of time the job would take them away from their religious activities, the amount of time it would put them in contact with people not sharing their beliefs, and the negative influence this could (in their eyes) have on their faith.
Just for your reference, and to let you see into the JW world a little, this is a typical example of the propoganda JW's are regularly fed in their publications about how to deal with really good/well paid job offers :
"A former employee offered me a good office job, but I prefered to do cleaning work so that I could spend more time with Saúl and be with him when his school day ended" ~ Watchtower October 1, 2008 - page 29
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botchtowersociety
"Quran prohibits us to do so in the following verse" isn't supported by the verse you cite here. Thus, while you personnaly don't condomne the behavior, you have done nothing to prove the Qur'an is against it.
There is an extra-Quranic body of teaching that advises against innovation. If it isn't a practice (sunnah) done by Mohammed or the early successors (written in the hadiths), it is best not done, from the Islamic perspective.