by breakfast of champions 173 Replies latest jw friends
When my grandson speaks of his being an atheist . His Mom sugests we gentely tell him he's really an agnostic. It's like voting sweetie, you have to grow up some to make certain choices. I asked what influenced him , parents , news, friends, his JW grandfather, the world, me . He said his parents.
When that Lunatic predicted the end of the world recently, he texted me the next day and LOLed about it. I did too , having grown up during the 75 fiasco.
Look, atheists reject the concept of any ultimate meaning, right? Of course right, that's the whole point of atheism, as you know.
I know that is wrong. It simply means "I don't beleive in any gods".
But would you agree that the central atheist assertion is that the attempt to find meaning is pointless?
No, because it's simply "I don't believe in any gods".
We can talk this way, but atheists know it is all a false conversation: there ain't no truth or meaning, yours or mine.
It's always amusing when people are AREN'T me tell me what I think, and ALWAYS get it wrong. Curioser and curioser.
JW's feed the atheists and libral progressive movements.
This is quite true. I would hazard a guess (without evidence, just a guess) that above 60-70% of ex-JWs become either (or both) progressives and atheists/agnostics.
Ed Dunlap told me again and again that he thought one of the worst thing the Witnesses did was to spoil honest Christian belief for almost everyone who left the cult - he though they were so disgusted with the Witnesses that they became disgusted in turn with all religion. I think he was right -
This is exactly what happened to me.
Of course, breaking the rule - I stayed conservative politically (which I always was even when a witness).
Very wrong---JW's did not destroy Christianity for me. Once I turned on my critical thinking to leave the cult, I did not turn it off when looking at other religions and god belief. JW's failed the test and so did the rest. People like to say that we are atheists cuz we were hurt by religion, mad at god, disillusioned---whatever. Rarely do they want to accept that we have simply learned to think critically and no longer allowed emotion to guide our judgement in this area. I'm sure we do in other areas, but this is one spot where we didn't stop the job once we left the KH walls. Our brains kept working, we kept testing, we kept asking questions, and we kept looking at the evidence.
And if dealing with an extreme clued me in to the bologny of all of it, then fine. But I am not an atheist because JW's hurt me. IN FACT, I was actually content to be a JW. I became an atheist for other reasons entirely---evidence and critical thinking. I wasn't wounded or angry. Well other than the wounds that god belief in general cause, but this was not an emotional decision.
NC
Very wrong---JW's did not destroy Christianity for me. Once I turned on my critical thinking to leave the cult, I did not turn it off when looking at other religions and god belief. JW's failed the test and so did the rest.
Semantics - what you said above is exactly what Ed meant. The key element is "critical thinking".
NC, why are you such an anti-sematic person? ;)
JW's feed the atheists and libral progressive movements.
Only the smart ones.
Ed Dunlap told me again and again that he thought one of the worst thing the Witnesses did was to spoil honest Christian belief for almost everyone who left the cult - he though they were so disgusted with the Witnesses that they became disgusted in turn with all religion. I think he was right -
(No disrespect to Ed or James Woods intended.)
It's safe to assume that some folks, after having lived through extreme spiritual abuse may have simply left all religion and never given it a second thought. On the other hand, many of the members here have given elaborate testimony of how this was not the case at all. Rejection of specific beliefs came after extensive contemplation.
Would you please elaborate on "honest Christian belief" and what value it has for the ex-JW community?
If Dunlap really did think that was the "worst" thing that WT did to folks, he was ignorant(?) of a variety of more serious consequences that can result from being involved with a destructive cult. The only vantage point from which it could be the "worst thing" is if he believed ex-JWs were going to burn in Hell or miss out on everlasting life, IMHO.
I find Mr. Dunlap's opinion to be very cynical. It assumes that people are too stupid or too damaged to evaluate the available evidence and then make an informed decision about how they would like to pursue happiness, with whatever time they have left.
What church or denomination would Mr. Dunlap have preferred for people to join? Or, did he promote a Long Ranger version of Christianity, that is so popular with those who've experienced spiritual abuse?
If going to church makes your life more enjoyable, by all means do it. I don't miss it one bit.
I'm reminded of a conversation in the film, 'Dazed and Confused', when some characters are discussing the value of going back to college. Substitute "church" for "school" in the dialogue below.
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"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows." -- Mark Twain
Actually... it didn't take very much to show that the article was wrong. According to their source, 70% of Atheists change denominations. That's where the 30% number comes from. However, another 20% change to other types of non-religious, which would put the retention rate up to 50%.
Thank you Clarinetist.
LWT
