Time to get rid of the monarchy

by jamesmahon 161 Replies latest members politics

  • JustHuman14
    JustHuman14

    Well the way things are going in UK, it seems it will be just England...Scotland wants to brake appart and the others sooner or later will follow.

    I stand in the middle regarding the Queen. If she pay the taxes, like we all do in UK, then Monarchy is no weight for the tax payers that is fine. Perhaps, you should consider the Queen as an attraction for the Tourist Industry in UK. I mean when someone comes to London for a holiday, the first thing they want to see is Buckingham Palace. No body wants to see the Prime Minister!

    So the entire Ceremonial associating with the Queen is the thing that attracts people and tourists. If you get rid of the Queen, then a major attraction it will be lost. Just visit the Palace any day and see how many tourists are outside taking photos when the Guard changes. For sure Queen Elizabeth, is a figure of Prestige for UK, and since she is not connected to any Politcal Party, then is more like a unification bond for the British Cittizens.

    Besides, due to Mornachy, Queen Elizabeth, employes lot of people, plus all the tourist industry makes a serious income due to souvenirs and items that have subject the Queen.

    For me She gives a different perspective for the outsite world and also for Britain and an important role to play

  • Diest
    Diest

    I can't see how getting rid of the house of lords could be a bad thing. You guys need another house, you have a defacto unicameral system and unicameral systems suck. Well that is unless you are trying to be like Nebraska...

  • cedars
    cedars

    Still stunned that, according to Talesin, Canadians seriously think that Harry is a Nazi because he stupidly dressed as one for a party prank when he was 17.

    Do you guys have halloween over there? Are conclusions drawn about the political/religious persuasions of children/teenagers based on how they are dressed when they come to your door on that evening?

    Cedars

  • Chariklo
    Chariklo

    Cofty,

    I already said I agree Edward VIII was probably a Nazi.

    Well, no, actually he wasn't. Selfish? Yes. A playboy? Yes. Irresponsible? Yes. Not all that bright? Yes. Victim of a greedy, predatory woman? I can hear the howls of derision coming, but yes, probably he was.

    But a Nazi?

    Here is the definition of a Nazi from the thefreedictionary.com.

    "A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, founded in Germany in 1919 and brought to power in 1933 under Adolf Hitler."

    Come on, he wasn't that, was he?

    There's a great danger in online forum discussions such as this of getting carried away with exaggerations and simplistic arguments. You and Cedars are absolutely right, Cofty, and I know we all think alike on this. Edward VIII was a disaster as a king. Probably, his abdication was the best thing that could have happened to the monarchy and to Britain at that time in those circumstances.

    The monarchy is an integral part of the British constituion, the only unwritten Constitution, as far as I know, in the world, and yet a constituion that has evolved over a very long time. Although to the world's media it is mere soap, and open to all manner of discussion and argument and fashion columnists and just about anything else imaginable, it is absolutely the force for stability that keeps Britain, with all its faults and inadequacies, the pleasant and safe place to live that it is.

    When it is stated as fact that the Royal family wanted rid of Diana, I cringe and also get angry. Do people on this forum know such things as fact because they themselves were party to the intimate conversations of those involved? of course not!

    It never ceases to amaze me how intelligent people, who think critically and wisely about power-hungry and oppressive religious movements, will cite as indisputable fact what is actually gossip created by the media. Even people who don't live here.

    The Queen and her family have touched very many individual lives here, often in many ways. They are human beings, with many faults, just like each one of us. They are human beings with a job to do, and for the most part, allowing for each individual's age and experience, they do their job with a remarkable dedication and sense of duty.

    Of course there are dissenting voices in this country and overseas. This is a democracy. Expressing an opinion is free. But don't express your own personal opinions as fact and don't base your opinions on cheap media gossip, created and fanned just to bring in money.

    Most people here love both Queen and country and are fiercely loyal to both. That loyalty will extend to her successors. Oh! And for those who love to knock Charles and assume that everyone agrees with them, no, by and large, despite constant efforts by media-fed gainsayers, over here they don't. Yes, some do. But most are very much aware that Charles is actually a very idealistic and decent chap, who does an enormous amount of good and will eventually make a good king. Camilla, too, is all right. Yes, they both made mistakes in the past. They're not making them now. Give them a chance.

    So, in answer to the thread title, no, it is not time to get rid of the monarchy.

  • jamesmahon
    jamesmahon

    Chariklo

    Thank you for your considered response

    No one said Edward VIII was a nazi but a nazi sympathiser. Of course there are degrees of sympathy but I think it is fair to say the nazis thought they had him in their pocket and certainly he had close enough contact with them to ask them to protect his French homes. Your point about him being a disaster as a King is an interesting one. Are you suggesting that a hereditary system could possibly result in someone innapropriate for the role? And let's remember he was very popular at the time. And interesting you say his abdicating was best for the monarchy - bot best for the country?

    As for the points about it working for 100s of years. No it hasn't. The monarchy and lords have been continually denuded of power. Our current system of government with universal suffrage, a second chamber that is revising only and a monarch with zero political power is only 100 years old. These changes were made because the system did not work. We are still looking at changing it because it is not fit for purpose. The only ones who want to keep the political system the way it is are those with a vested interest in doing so.

    Your argument for stability is interesting. If you mean political stability - remarkably if you remove choice from the populace on their head of state the result is stability. Just ask the Chinese. I would rather have more choice and less stability thanks. If you are meaning some other concept of social stability I can assure you that people are not rioting in the streets because of the stability the Windsors provide. If you mean there is a continuity through something that never changes then I would suggest as a nation we need to grow up. There is no reason in any case that you can't have continuity through an institution that does not require the head of that institution to be chosen from one family at birth.

    Our famous unwritten constitution. Perhaps you can enlighten me on what it says exactly? Because my understanding is that essentially it means that Parliament of the day passes the laws and that is it. What they says goes. Why an unelected, herediatry monarch is integral to that I don't know. Perhaps you could enlighten me? In fact, the presence of an unwritten constitution that allows the government of the day to pass whatever laws they see fit regardless of the impact on citizens (stop and search anyone) is exactly why executive power sharing between branches of government is needed. So thanks for making my original point for me.

    Granted the Windsors do a lot of charity work. I think Cofty does too, as do a whole load of others up and down the country. If I was paid to do the same I would as well. So what is your point? People who do good works are good people?

    Only Tal said anything about a possible conspiracy about Di. Perhaps you could address my point about her behaviour that night?

    Lots of people do not like charles. What makes me laugh is that people pretend the monarchy is not a popularity contest when of course it is. The Queen realised this after Dianna died and they have been on a charm offensive ever since. Charlie is just a bit too thick to understand what that means. I am afraid he is not allowed to be idealistic if that means sharing his views on the way the world should be - because that is, I am afraid, political with a small 'p' which is against our unwritten constitution.

    Am I the only one that finds it ironic by the way that people argue to keep the monarchy because it brings in tourist money from Americans who got rid of the monarchy over 200 years ago?

  • jamesmahon
    jamesmahon

    LMAS - I was only joking. And it does roll of the tongue better than Little Miss Malvinas. And LMAS makes you sound like a paramimlitary organisation.

    It would have been interesting if you had supported the monarchy though. I wonder if i would have then got "Look, even someone from overseas who we always disagree with thinks it is a good idea"

  • jamesmahon
    jamesmahon

    Mr Woods

    I thought is was a Testarossa.

    Now here is a real travisty.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Yes just to be clear I meant that the evidence Edward VIII may have had sympathetic links to the German National Socialist Party.

    I still think that even if this is true it is irelevant to the discussion about the role of the modern monarchy.

    I enjoyed your post Chariklo, you speak for a large percentage of UK citizens.

  • scotsman
  • scotsman
    scotsman

    Intrigued, maybe appalled, to find people so openly supporting the UK class system which perpetuates inequality in society. But maybe me, my friends and colleagues are some strange statistical blip that support republicanism.

    Do people really believe we need the monarchy to continue to attract tourists? I've just returned from a fortnight in a country without one and historic and natural attractions are doing a roaring trade, maybe even more would come to see the whole of Buckingham Palace/Windsor Castle/ Holyrood Palace/St James Palace/Kensignton Palace and their art and furniture collections rather than just parts of them. But then again, the argument really does put the Queen on a par with Mickey Mouse...

    I'm embarrassed by the monarchy and hereditary peerage, and more embarrassed by the trite claptrap written about such incredibly privileged families who are no better or worse or deserving than the rest of the public. The notion that cursteying, or bowing, or kneeling before a person because of their ancestry and calling them highness, ma'am or your grace, is anachronistic.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit