Time to get rid of the monarchy

by jamesmahon 161 Replies latest members politics

  • jamesmahon
    jamesmahon

    British people are weird. I think there are quite a few over here that provided they were still called 'King' or 'Queen' it wouldn't matter if their name was drawn from a hat. Which it is pretty much now when you think about it.

    The special customs, rules, decorum etc. have been used to maintain the class system in this country. You know I think if the person is polite and respectful that would be enough.

    Just think for a moment. There is no systematic way in which the head of state of our country can ever be any ethnicity but white. I have to tell my kids "You can be anything you want to be. Accept the head of your country. You have to be from one family for that." Like I say it is fear of change. I can think of many people who I would imagine would do a great job of representing the country, even if it was just in a figuritive role. What we always get with these debates is what Cedars did. Show a person they think has no respectibility and say "would you want him/her?". Well of course not. But I don't want Elizabeth Windsor and I have no choice. And you know, if the majority of people did want Russel Brand, or Tony Blair or a.n.other who I or they think is not worthy then I would accept that as being the choice they made.

    I am guessing for example that you don't like Obama, but you respect the fact that your system elected him and would rather that then King Obama until his death - even if he had no actual power.

  • cedars
    cedars

    jamesmahon

    Just think for a moment. There is no systematic way in which the head of state of our country can ever be any ethnicity but white. I have to tell my kids "You can be anything you want to be. Accept the head of your country.

    You have a point there. If ever I have kids, I can imagine them being completely devastated when I break the news to them... ...

    Cedars

  • Las Malvinas son Argentinas
    Las Malvinas son Argentinas

    I'm not sure there's really a 'right' or 'wrong' side in this debate. It's a matter of political outlook and philosophy. I can see why people would want to retain the monarchy as a uniquely British cultural element, and I can also see modernists desiring a republican government. It really depends on how you see your own country. As I live in a republic which has its own history with dictatorship, I lean more towards Mahon's viewpoint. But I will do you all the favour of not pressing my opinion on this one as I normally would. After all, the British monarchy is a different flavour than an Argentine dictatorship. I do know my place in this discussion as I am not a British or Dominion subject, so I'm curious to see the divergent opinions within the Anglosphere.

  • jamesmahon
    jamesmahon
    Again... resorting to poking fun at individual members of the royal family hardly dignifies your argument. We're all human and we all "balls it up" from time to time.

    Cedars, cedars, cedars. It is not about whether these people 'balls up' - it is about whether they were chosen for that role through meritocracy, democracy or accident of birth. If the role is that important why leave it to the last of these? If it is not that important then why can I not have a say in who takes that role?

    Elizabeth Windsor has been successful at keeping her nose clean, not meddling in anything remotely political and using the media to get everyone behind her. Or rather her management team have after the diana debacle. Charles has already failed miserably in all these regards. Want to have someone else? Tough titties.

    You argument about dictatorship is a red herring. Tell me - what decisions do I as a subject have a say in on any major area of policy? What challenge did Tony Blair have for 11 years? Thatcher in the 80s the same. Compare that with the struggle Obama has had with his budgets or healthcare plans.

  • jamesmahon
    jamesmahon

    If ever I have kids, I can imagine them being completely devastated when I break the news to them.

    Oh come on now. It is a principle and you know it.

  • cedars
    cedars

    HAHA!!

    I can't believe people are seriously equating the British political system to a dictatorship!

    laughing

    Sorry LMSA, I do appreciate your viewpoints and in no way seek to suppress them. Please continue! Excuse my poor manners...

    Cedars

  • jamesmahon
    jamesmahon

    I have just realised it is not as much fun debating with people that you like. Perhaps we should start insulting each other?

    Cedars - you can stick that flat cap up your arse after you have dothed it to your betters. Meaning me.

  • cedars
    cedars

    jamesmahon

    You argument about dictatorship is a red herring. Tell me - what decisions do I as a subject have a say in on any major area of policy? What challenge did Tony Blair have for 11 years? Thatcher in the 80s the same. Compare that with the struggle Obama has had with his budgets or healthcare plans.

    I'm not arguing about there being a dictatorship in this country - you are. And you don't seem to be "chomping at the bit" to explain how that assertion is in no way offensive to, say, a poor kid in the Syrian city of Homs who is having his home blown to bits by HIS head of state. And I'm still not hearing the words "general election" in your argument. Tell me, are you asleep while these things happen?!

    Oh come on now. It is a principle and you know it.

    I know, I was a bit patronizing there. But seriously, I just can't imagine "being head of state for your country" ever making it onto the list of UN inalienable human rights. Surely making it to the role of Prime Minister is a lofty ambition enough for your kids? I can imagine pacifying my own future kids rather easily by offering them that alternative aspiration.

    Cedars

  • Las Malvinas son Argentinas
    Las Malvinas son Argentinas

    You misread me. I specificially said that the British monarchy was not to be likened to a dictatorship. It is largely gutted and has no real power other than ceremonial. With that said, I agree with Mahon that I don't see much of a purpose in keeping that charade up. That is what is being discussed, not the equation of the monarchy to a run of the mill dictatorship. If we can disconnect the two terms completely, then a reasonable debate can occur. 'Dictatorship' is a loaded term which implies harsh meanings. 'Hereditary rule' is probably a more appropriate term. But for a monarchy which reigns, but does not rule, we're treading deep into semantics here.

  • cedars
    cedars

    jamesmahon

    Cedars - you can stick that flat cap up your arse after you have dothed it to your betters. Meaning me.

    I won't explain how it happened, but believe me... I've already tried. It cost me a fortune in ointments to fix the chaffing of the heavy tweed.

    Cedars

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