Anonymous Message to Watchtower

by jwleaks 343 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

• 

  cedars

  Hi jamesmahon, thanks for your response, which I will read carefully before responding tomorrow. I would probably have the time to respond now if you were able to argue your points more succinctly, and didn't rely on using paragraphs upon paragraphs to explain yourself. I'm not criticizing you for writing lengthy replies, I just genuinely think it's a shame that, if you are so right, you need so many words to explain it.

  From experience of dealing with your argumentation on the monarchy thread, I've noticed it can get rather tiresome arguing with you, because you tend to adopt one false position and then go off on a tangent based on this, writing reams and reams from a flawed starting point. Suffice to say, you think the NSPCC report on how to deal with convicted offenders is entirely relevant to Anonymous exposing a corrupt and damaging cult along with those accused of child abuse who are molesting children with complete impunity (in many cases, no doubt, in positions of trust)... and I do not.

  If there is anything in your above arguments that materially alters this stance, then I will reply to it tomorrow when I have time. However, as of this moment I think you're barking up the wrong tree, and I can't fathom why. I would have assumed that, as a father, you would be more sensitive than me regarding these issues, and not less so.

  Cedars
• 

  jamesmahon

  Sorry flipper. Missed this

  I know people on this board who have told me this and have brought it to elders, Circuit Overseers, and Bethel legals attention - and you know what response they have received ? " Wait on Jehovah " , " don't concern yourself with it sister, you need to attend meetings and make your faith in the organization stronger " . How in the hell does a person do THAT when it's the WT organization committing the crime hiding, protecting, and not reporting child abusers ?

  Their policy is wrong. Have I ever argued otherwise? Just think for a moment people. Would you prefer that everyone who had an accusation of child molestation made against them has their name announced from the platform? Or perhaps only those where the elders believe there is some guilt? Of course not. What we want is the police to investigate these matters and guilt or innocence determined. Your point is really interesting because of what it shows about the JW mindset. People on this Board whilst JWs did not go to the police first. They went to elders, COs, bethel legal etc. So even when you can still see what is wrong in the org for many who are in it will make not the slightest difference. People have to go to the police and to get a successful prosecution. Unless the policy changes to one of telling people to inform the police first with allegations of abuse there will not be a lot of change and why on earth will releasing this list mean that is going to happen? Again - go for the governing body. Minutes of their meetings that are clearly trying to silence victims of molestation will do a lot more damage.

  So Mr. James- the only way to force the WT society to cough up the evidence is to FORCE them to cough it up by lawsuits like Candace Conti's and Anonymous organizations infiltrating and seizing any and all evidence of crimes being committed. Unless you'd rather it be buried under the rug and innocent children go on for decades being sexually abused ? I hope that's not what you desire.

  I beleive the best way is always through legal means based upon the laws of the land. If they don't work then by all means seek other routes. You seem to be implying that any route is admissable. I am arguing that community notification is a route that does not work. Or do you believe it does?
• 

  DT

  Jamesmahon is bringing up some important concerns. We should be concerned about the effects of public disclosure, especially on victims and those wrongly accused. The extreme emotions surrounding issues of child abuse makes it difficult to discuss policies. In some cases, these emotions make matters worse, as when an organization covers up abuse because it is aware of the how even allegations can destroy reputations.

  If the Watchtower Society handled abuse allegations appropriately, I wouldn't be in favor of releasing this list. However, there are Witnesses in positions of authority that should be removed and allegations that should be reported to the police. I think releasing the list would help with that.
• 

  OUTLAW

  The problem is that many may have good standing and be innocent and have this good standing completely removed

  However, will put that to one side and assume all on the list are guilty.....JamesMahon

  ?..

  The WBT$ had enough proof to put them on the Pedophile List..

  Burden of Proof for Molesting Children is much heavier in the WBT$..

  Many WBT$ JW Child Molesters are Still in Good Standing..

  You have no sound reason for the names not to be published..

  The WBT$ considers them Guilty..

  So..

  There is a personal reason why..

  You feel not publishing those names benifits you..

  Are you protecting the WBT$ because your Pro WBT$?

  Are you on the WBT$ Pedophile List that will be Published?..

  ............................ ...OUTLAW
• 

  jamesmahon

  DT

  Just watched flippers video. What is reiterated again and again is not that the community was not notified, but that the police were not notified. This is the crux of the whole thing. Some of the examples given were of disfellowshipped people or removed as elders - and they carried on abusing.

  If the Watchtower Society handled abuse allegations appropriately, I wouldn't be in favor of releasing this list. However, there are Witnesses in positions of authority that should be removed and allegations that should be reported to the police. I think releasing the list would help with that.

  We all agree that all allegations should be reported to the police. I don't think witnesses in positions of authority should be removed if accused. They should be reported to the police. Period. An accusation should never in itself be sufficient to punish anyone. Regardless of the crime.
• 

  jamesmahon

  Outlaw. Join the list of people who think I am a child molestor. Glad you think that is appropriate. 'No sound reasons' yet you do not even attempt to debate any of them. Still, a witty one liner always works better doesn't it Outlaw. Even if it is backed up with nothing.

  Just out of interest are the NSPCC a bunch of child molestors for saying that community notification is a bad idea? That is all I am doing.

  And sorry - you really trust an investigation by the elders to confirm someone's guilt?

  And DT - thanks for at least trying to debate this.
• 

  DT

  "I don't think witnesses in positions of authority should be removed if accused."

  This list in question involves cases where there are at least two witnesses. I think this is sufficient cause to remove someone from a position of authority. It doesn't mean that the person is always guilty, but there is enough evidence that it is too risky to let him continue.
• 

  jamesmahon

  Cedars

  Sorry you find my posts so tiresome. I try rather than just stating something to explain the logic and evidence behind that. My apologies. Should of course just be dogmatic. You write well considered posts so not sure why you have said this.

  Just a thought - why as a dad and someone who has been abused would I not support this if I thought is was a good idea? The reason is simple. I don't think it is a good idea. Nothing more complicated than that. I have tried to argue why I believe that is the case and the best reason for doing it has been that it might mean some elders are removed so they will not be in positions of responsibility. In Flippers video this happened - someone else was disfellowshipped. It didn't stop the abuse in either case. The point was that the authorities were not informed. It may be that releasing the list gives someone the courage to come forward. It may also be it brings back a load of unwanted memories for someone. It may result in someone moving to another location and abusing again. Who knows? But given the only evidence on community notification is that whilst well intended there is no evidence it protects children and may harm them I think sounding a large note of caution over this is not unreasonable.

  What I will do is contact the NSPCC and see what they have to say.
• 

  jamesmahon

  DT - if there are two witnesses they should go to the police. Let them investigate. Certainly remove them while they are being investigated. It isn't right someone should be punished for an allegation with no hope it will be investigated.
• 

  OUTLAW

  Outlaw. Join the list of people who think I am a child molestor. Glad you think that is appropriate.

  Just out of interest are the NSPCC a bunch of child molestors for saying that community notification is a bad idea? That is all I am doing.

  And sorry - you really trust an investigation by the elders to confirm someone's guilt?...jamesmahon

  I asked a perfectly Reasonable Question..

  You could have said "No"..

  Instead you toss in another Strawman and offer No Answer at all..

  I don`t give a Rats Ass about the NSPCC..

  It`s another Strawman..

  The Subject is about releasing the names..

  Of WBT$ JW Pedophiles the WBT$ believes are Guilty..

  Or they wouldn`t be on the list..

  If JW Elders found a Child Molester Guilty..That means they Found 2 Witness`s..

  So..

  You would refuse to believe 2 people who said they "Saw a Child Molested"?..

  All in all..

  Your Behaviour here is more than a..

  Little Suspicious..

  

  ............................ ...OUTLAW