Thanks Barbara.
Conti Trial Transcripts and Court Documents of Attorney Zalkin's cases of 5 victims WT settled out-of-court, San Diego, all available to download using MediaFire
by AndersonsInfo 50 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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Hoffnung
what does the minutes below mean? did the society drop the appeal?
Hoffnung
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Refriedtruth
Could somebody please post the text of Conti trial closing arguments by the Watchtower side
Seeking authentication over here
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rather be in hades
at first i was disappointed with the san diego one. i haven't read throgh all of the papers, bt the judgements seemed to be in the watchtower's favor, bt then i kept on reading...
in the watchtower's statement of disputed facts...located in zip file 2a...
starting from page 2...
- they don't deny the elders are revered in the congregation - meaning they take leadership and are trusted (2)
- don't deny elders and ministerial servants are vetted before becoming one - uh ohhhh (3)
- they don't deny elders are agents of the watchtower - so if an elder rapes a child...and the elder is an agent of the watchtower...(5)
- they don't deny there is an elder book that tells them how to handle sexual abuse - so it's by wt instructions how to handle matters (6)
- they don't deny you mst be approved for field service - vetting? we are talking about approaching homes with children...(11)
the time line is rather scary. all of these are facts not disputed by the watchtower society
- 1977 - dorman was born
- 1980 - campos becomes an baptized publisher in 1980 (34)
- 1982 - campos molests a young member of linda vista congregation (39)
- 1982 - yong member tells his mother (40)
- 1982 - at this time, campos CONFESSES to the boy's mother (41)
- 1982 - -mother tells elders, elders investigate, campos confesses to elders, NO ACTION TAKEN (42-47)
- 1982 - elders decides it's a minor matter bc they feel as though the mothers of the two involved worked it out somehow (48)
- 1982 - elder knew molestation was a crime, that he may repeat the crime, yet no restrictions on service and cong not warned (49)
- 1982 - police never called and campos continued condcting bible studies (50-51)
- 1983 - WHEN DORMAN WAS 6 YEARS OLD, CAMPOS WOULD SODOMIZE HIM AFTER BIBLE STUDY. HE WOULD TAKE DORMAN TO WORK WITH HIM. DORMAN'S MOTHER THOUGHT THIS WAS FINE AS HE WOULD BE A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR HER SON. (100)
- 1985 - WHEN DORMAN WAS APPROX 8 YEARS OLD, THE ABUSE STOPPED...AT LEAST AT WORK...STILL SKETCHY IF THERE WAS MORE. (100)
- 1986 - linda vista splits into la jolla and linda vista. both halls comprised of members from the original linda vista (57)
- 1986 - inaugural elders for la jolla congregation were elders from linda vista
- 1986 - elders form judicial committee for campos as more sexal molestation allegations come forth (pg. 24 - 2)
- 1986 - reproved, not expelled, temporary restriction on some priveledges (pg. 24 - 3)
- 1987 - Dormans move to Illinois, victim was 10...
- 1988 - becomes a ministerial servant (36)
- 1988 - campos started molesting gamboa and continued molesting him until 1994, sometimes as many as 2-3x a week from oral to attempted sodomy, digital anal penetration. (83-86)
- 1993 - becomes an elder, eventually becomes congregation servant (37)
- 1994 - gamboa moves to arizona and campos can no longer abuse him (86)
- 1994 - the dormans learn their son had been molested by campos (60)
- 1994 - campos admits to molesting dorman AND THAT THE ELDERS ALREADY KNEW (61)
- 1994 - dormans ask the riveras who are believed to have a son molested by campos, riveras were already warned of campos (62)
- 1994 - elders say that if she pursues the matter a previous affair she engaged in would be disclosed to the congregation, also said that too many years had passed and there was nothing they could do (63)
how sick is this group? just reading all that happened, it's sick and twisted and the society did everything they could to get out of being culpable, but the whole thing started because of their organization! the gamboas and dormans would have never known campos had it not been for them. or the 'necessary' bible studies. what sick fucks.
verbal judo by the watchtower society. i do like these legal docments forcing the watchtower society to explain their beliefs. it's like the covington testimony.most jehovah's witnesses will never read this stuff and their only source of information will be from the publications where the wording is fluffed up, but HERE in these court documents, you can see in plain english the reality of the beliefs.i like how they say that campos was NOT an ordained minister of jehovah's witnesses. technically this is true as i believe in several cases, jehovah's witnesses have lost cases for conscientious objectors on the basis they were not leaders/ordained ministers in that sense...however i do believe that changes if you are an elder. which he eventally became one... that said, the whole disfellowshipping seems fraudlent. if baptism does not make you an ordained minister of jehovah's witnesses, and if baptism instead makes you an, "ordained minister of the good news and that his ordination means he is a witness of jehovah and not a minister of jehovah's witnesses, then was i ever a jehovah's witness? better yet, they say that the baptism means you are a pblisher and member of a specific congregation, which is a part of the worldwide brotherhood of jehovah's witnesses right? so doesn't that automatically make you an ordained minister of jehovah's witnesses? how can i be an an ordained minister of the good news that my congregation is publishing and be a member of that organization that is part of a worldwide network of jehovah's witnesses, and yet not be an ordained minister of the jehovah's witnesses...preaching the good news that they, and they alone, seem to have?
- there's the question of time slips. according to the watchtower society in LEGAL PAPERWORK you do not have to turn in time (23 and 24)
ok so why were the elders always bugging about getting the slips on time? as a pioneer why was that so important? if this is the case, why was i hounded to stop pioneering when i was only making it 60ish hours a month and not the full 80 or so if i remember right? that statement is misleading at best and fraudulent at worst. frankly i could have just said whatever and been cool with that. let's be real...even for that 60 i sometimes had to fudge
- there's the qestion of the meeting for field service...nnecessary according to the watchtower society (25)
well that's interesting. if that's not necessary that leaves all sorts of questions as far as procedures, territories, making arrangements...why do we do that? pshhhh just get the f out there and do it if that's the case...and yet they don't. seems like the watchtower society is doing everything they can to distance themselves from responsibility here. hey...WE didn't make 'em do this. we had NOTHING to do with campos going out in field service...i wonder how the elders in the congregations felt. i can't imagine some dobt wasn't placed with that, unless the society said something about theocratic warfare. that's a good one really...
- there's the question of territories...unnecessary according to the watchtower society (26 and 27)
again, escaping responsibility. hey WE didn't send campos to go work in this part...no no no that was THEM. being an elder is dangerous to your health.
- the purpose of field service is to preach about the good news, NOT TO INVITE PEOPLE TO THE KINGDOM HALLS OR TO BEGIN BIBLE STUDIES SO AS TO ATTRACT NEW MEMBERS (27 AND 28)
now this jst blows my chops. REALLY?!?!?! REALLY??? you mean you're NOT trying to pull in new members? oh hey, ya it's cool if you want to stay in your old church bt preach with us. your baptism is between you and god. REALLY??? FLAT F'ING LIES. you know how much easier it would have been to just knock on people's doors and say, "hey my name is so and so, and i just wanted to say jesus and jayz both love ya to death and that jesus will come again some day as king. it'll be sweet and if you read about it in the bible...paradise be with ya yo, hot chicks, perfect health, beach all damn day...i can't wait."
and then bounce. now why was i always pressured to start bible studies? why were people always inviting them to the halls? damn. but they'll find a way to twist all this into, well it's the truth!
actually, if field service is to preach about the good news, wouldn't i still be doing field service by apostasizing? i mean, i' still preaching about the good news...just this time pointing out that the good news is false, that jesus DIDN'T become king in 1914 because that's the truth.
- meetings are not necessary for members and uniformity is not required in terms of the preaching work. training not required for it.(29 and 30)
now i'm not sure if that applies to all meetings or just the theocratic ministry school or for all meetings but hmmmmm, so my mom could have left me at home instead of take me all those times? i could have played baseball all those years and gone to sports practice because the meetings weren't necessary?
this is all wrong. it's all so very wrong
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Dagney
Thank you Barbara!
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rather be in hades
13 Elders, for instance, are appointed by holy spirit. (Acts 20:28) But not all spirit-anointed ones serve as overseers in the congregation. What are we to conclude from this? Simply that God’s spirit operates in different ways on members of the congregation.
- 12/15/11 watchtower pg 25so did holy spirit somehow decide that it was cool to appoint thsi gy as an elder? did holy spirit make a mistake? maybe it was the communication, like playing telephone. you know how the message always gets garbled in that game right? so maybe it was like the perfect holy spirit saying, "no don't appoint campos, he's a child molestor!" but the body of elders were praying and it sounded to them like jehovah was saying, "yo go'nd appoint campos, he's not a child molestor!" haahahasilly mistakes but damn it's too bad for the kids. oh wait, well since he might not have been abusing a child from the time he was an elder...maybe that excuses it?
*** bt chap. 5 pp. 42-43 par. 20 “We Must Obey God as Ruler” ***
Jehovah’s people today follow the apostolic pattern. Men recommended for congregational responsibility must manifest godly wisdom and give evidence that the holy spirit is operating on them. Under the direction of the Governing Body, men who meet the Scriptural requirements are appointed to serve as elders or ministerial servants in the congregations. (1 Tim. 3:1-9, 12, 13) Those who meet the qualifications can be said to have been appointed by holy spirit. These hardworking men care for much “necessary business.” For example, elders may coordinate practical help for faithful older ones who have a genuine need. (Jas. 1:27) Some elders are very involved in constructing Kingdom Halls, organizing conventions, or doing hospital liaison work. Ministerial servants care for many duties that do not directly involve shepherding or teaching. All such qualified men must balance congregational and organizational responsibilities with the God-assigned obligation to preach the good news of the Kingdom.—1 Cor. 9:16.call me crazy but it sounds to me like ministerial servants also happen to be appointed by holy spirit. i mean it says these people have to have god's holy spirit operating upon them. kinda nasty though. didn't realize god's holy spirit was a child molestor. i'm not sure how it is god's holy spirit decided to tell the elders that they shold try to blackmail mrs. dorman from getting justice for her son.
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AnnOMaly
Thank you, Barbara. The Conti transcripts are very helpful. I've been wanting to read the whole thing for a while rather than piecing the snippets together. The other case will have to wait (so little time atm!).
Hoffnung - no, the motion to appeal has not been dropped. It'll be some minor legal point that is not being pursued - I've not checked what.
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Balaamsass
great points
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rather be in hades
bmping this thread for others who might want these documents
once again thank you for providing them.
