No atheist in A fox hole.

by jam 55 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Maybe you didn't notice that he asked a question TO atheists?

  Yes, I did notice that question in the middle of the OP.

  Jam, I appreciate your OP. It takes a lot of courage to make a thread like this. I've known people who were not completely convinced either way about God's reality or non reality who decide to address their prayers to the Great Spirit. My father's maternal grandfather was full blooded native American. Dad always prayed to the Great Spirit. He was not agnostic, it's just what he was more comfortable with. When I left the org., I prayed to the Great Spirit. There are times I still address my prayers that way. I am not a doubter, but being a universalist, I don't feel a need to address God in any certain way.
• 

  sir82

  I've never served in the military, but based on what I've read, I'd venture to say that nothing creates more atheists than viewing the horrors of war from a foxhole.
• 

  caliber

  In death's approaching wake...

  Light a candle ....to remind you
  
  Of your brief time spent on earth,
  
  reflect on kindness, on goodness, on things shared
  
  see each sweet face in it's glowing,
  
  Shed a tear, grasp firmly to loving hands, then goodbye

  and yet be haunted by this now pressing thought ..

  IS this the end for my souls eternal yearnings ?

  ~~~Cal

  Have I maybe reached just the edge of the universe of time ?

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQVmN-NTZ_M

  ~~~~ Cal
• 

  rebel8

  The saying about foxholes is the same reason xians start urban legends about Darwin recanting evolution on his deathbed

  ...or Carl Sagan believing in the afterlife.
• 

  freeflyingfaerie

  Since the concept of god has already been introduced to us, how can we say what we would believe had we never heard of 'him'?

  The debates go on...because the idea already exists.

  I wonder what it would be like had that first person/people never entertained the concept of god?

  ~~if I was in severe danger and wanted help or relief, and had never entered the idea of a god, maybe primal instincts would kick in. Maybe I would be forced to be my own goddess (wow, how satanic of me, lol).

  ~~a few thoughts to throw into the mix...
• 

  King Solomon

  Sir82 said:

  nothing creates more atheists than viewing the horrors of war from a foxhole.

  True, but off the top of my head, aside from a college education in science (e.g. biology), another powerful force would surely be one like this?

  FHN said:

  I've known people who were not completely convinced either way about God's reality or non reality who decide to address their prayers to the Great Spirit. My father's maternal grandfather was full blooded native American. Dad always prayed to the Great Spirit. He was not agnostic, it's just what he was more comfortable with. When I left the org., I prayed to the Great Spirit. There are times I still address my prayers that way. I am not a doubter, but being a universalist, I don't feel a need to address God in any certain way.

  WOW....

  Knowing that one's ancestors were almost slaughtered via widespread genocide would make ME a bit gun-shy of worshipping ANY God, let alone the Abrahamic God worshipped by the very individuals who carried out the atrocities (and used the Holy Bible as their justification for doing it). You were a JW at one point?

  If not outright genocide, there was the forced "acculturation" of American Indian children:

  "Boarding schools and camps were set up where they underwent acculturation into white society. These schools were touted as an economical alternative solution to the nation’s “Indian problem” (as opposed to outright war). Under Grant’s Peace Policy of 1869, thousands of American Indian children as young as 5 years old were taken from their families and subjected to a life of harsh discipline and cultural cleansing. The schools were modeled after a prison school created by Captain Richard H. Pratt for Indian prisoners of war in Florida and were usually operated with military precision. Pratt’s philosophy of rigid order became the desired model. Punishment was swiftly meted out for offenses such as displaying any Indian tendencies. Students’ mouths were scrubbed out with lye soap for uttering any words in their native language. Children were virtual prisoners at the schools, forbidden to visit their parents, forced into hard labor, and subjected to a host of abuses including physical and sexual abuse by school officials and other students.

  Since the schools usually functioned with limited funds, children frequently died from starvation or preventable diseases, although some managed to run away to their families and tribes, only to be hunted down like animals and brought back to what was Hell. Pratt’s philosophy to “kill the Indian to save the man” was widely embraced as a more humane, Christian solution for controlling the Indian population. Native children were trained to become “useful, contributing” members of the new America as domestic servants – the only role for which they were deemed fit. This policy of forced acculturation was supported by the U.S. government, which appropriated funds for more than 400 such schools. Many of these schools were governed and run by the Catholic Church, although I'm not sure if the RCC had any camps of their own. Many of these so-called "Christian" nuns and priests abused, starved and sexually terrorized their Indian wards."

  
• 

  gymbob

  "You'll never find an atheist in a foxhole"...Is that kind of like, "You'll never find a dead Christian praying in a foxhole". (?)
• 

  cyberjesus

  Yes it makes sense. It gives you some comfort to think there is more still ahead for you in the afterlife....

  Some of us feel better without the illusion of whisful thinking. And enjoy the life as it is... And as it is is still very amazing.
• 

  jam

  Talesin; To answer your question, about agnosticism.

  I feel like I am caught between A rock and A hard place.

  I admire each of you here because you have found peace

  of mind. Flying high, have his or her unmovable faith, you

  atheist the same (not maybe faith) but peace of mind, reality.

  Maybe one day I will become a atheist, but right now I struggle

  with "nothing comes from nothing theory".

  My belief in the Bible, about 10% true. The no atheist in A fox hole,

  it may sound good but as others have pointed out it doesn,t

  make sense.

  The realization that my time here on this earth is quickly coming

  too an end, and when I take my last breath, it will bring some

  comfort if like Flying High now, knows or believe there is somthing

  else. The atheist have except the idea, this is it, I have lived and

  enjoyed my time here. Iam in between, I still feel A smidgen of

  hope there got to be somthing else.

  Again I emphasize rather you are A believer or not, you folks

  have peace of mind. That is where I want to be.
• 

  eva luna

  I agree with Sir82 .

  That, and watching, or losing someone to cancer. Hearirng everyone say, 'we are praying for them'. Thank you for your thoughtfulness, but it really wont help. But for a believer in God it may calm them.

  @ gymbob...simply put. I was thinking the same thing. Mostly, the only living things were the rats during the horrible trench conditions of WW1.

  @ rebel8 , also like Christopher Hithcens . It just didnt happen.