No atheist in A fox hole.

by jam 55 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  King Solomon

  Jam said:

  Maybe one day I will become a atheist, but right now I struggle

  with "nothing comes from nothing theory".

  Yet curiously, Xians are quite content accepting an even more improbable thought: they envision a God who is incredibly more complex and powerful than any plant, animal, Planet, even the Universe, yet God doesn't have a precursor, didn't have a Creator, but always has just been there, and always will be? It's comforting, but illogical. It answers the question of who made man, but merely kicks the question of who made all of this up to another level, and people are OK accepting that?

  In comparison, believing "something comes from nothing" is a walk thru the garden, compared to thinking of "something that has always been and always will be".

  Notice how the latter simply side-steps the question of where that "something" came from, so you're back to square 1. It's circular logic, appearing to be a great mysterious Zen-like paradox, when it's really just goofy, and not an answer but upping the ante, making the question even bigger....

  The realization that my time here on this earth is quickly coming too an end, and when I take my last breath, it will bring some comfort if like Flying High now, knows or believe there is somthing else.

  There's a fallacy that people on the verge of death are somehow granted special insight into the meaning of life (as reflected in the "famous last words" meme). The thinking is based on the idea that those on the verge of death are supposed to possess some greater insight into the meaning of life by being on deaths's threshold; hence they can grant the rest of us some special wisdom they gained before death. Unfortunately, people have no more insight than at any other time in their lives.

  Worse is people will live their entire lives so they don't experience regret at that one final moment, so they waste much of their life doing things they think will help to prevent them from a moment of experiencing regret or guilt. It's a crazy concept, as it's too late then, anyway....

  My guiding principle in life are those words offered by Aldous Huxley, who on HIS deathbed said:

  It is a bit embarrassing to have been concerned with the human problem all one's life and find at the end that one has no more to offer by way of advice than 'try to be a little kinder.'

  People try to make it much more complex than it need be, but that pretty much sums it up: "try to be a little kinder".
• 

  pseudoxristos

  Does it really matter if an Atheist breaks down in a such a situation?

  Atheist, like everyone else are only human. The will to survive will make some people do crazy things. To point a finger and declare that someone really wasn't an Atheist because they broke down in such a situation is petty and unreasonably critical.

  pseudo
• 

  jam

  Let me make this clear, I am not critcizing anyone for

  what they believe, since leaving the borg I have no

  right to do so. If someone worship snakes, so be it

  who am I to judge. But I have learn much here and will

  learn much more, that,s why the question was ask.
• 

  The Oracle

  @Sir82 - I think you're right
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  NewChapter

  arrgh, I used "you're"!

  I'm losing faith in you! NOOOOOOO!
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  transhuman68

  'Aint no use prayin', lol! I think as people get older they are less likely to pray if they are in a desperate situation. With more experience in life- seeing that life really is unfair; and a better understanding of theological concepts and the mystery of life, as well as just accepting the inevitable- it doesn't seem to make much sense to expect mercy from any supernatural being.
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  dgp

  I think that no one should believe in God only because you were so afraid of death that you wished it were not the end. That belief in God is based on fear, not on faith.

  When I was a believer, I received as a present a sonnet, originally in Spanish, whose translation I will share here. I think this is the real behavior a Christian should have. Believer because of the foxhole, no real believer.

  If I were God, a Christian who could only do the right thing because he feels he will have a reward would not be better than the atheist who dies thinking there is no tomorrow.

  To Christ Crucified

  Heaven that you have promised me, my God,
  Does not move me to love you.
  Nor does hell so dreadful move me
  To leave all that offends you.

  You move me, Lord. It moves me to see you
  Mocked, nailed to that cross.
  It moves me to see your body so wounded.
  Your dishonour moves me, and your death.

  You move me to your love in such a way
  That —even if there were no heaven— I would love you;
  And —even if there were no hell— I would fear you.

  You do not have to give to gain my love;
  For —even if what I hope for becomes hopeless—
  In the same way I love you, I would love you still.

  —Translated by Stacy Shoop, 1996
  (reproduced here with permission)
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  breakfast of champions

  I totally understand the comfort one receives from prayer. For much of my life I received such relief/comfort.

  Then I got sick. A BIG part ofthe sickness was that my prayers went into a black hole.

  There was no relief, no comfort.

  What I then realized was that the comfort and relief I had received from prayer all my life was from WITHIN.

  It wasn't some supernatural force. It was ME.

  I didn't need Richard Dawkins or PZ Meyers to tell me this. I just knew it was all in my mind.
• 

  ZeusRocks

  I must say my personal experience has been a bit different. I was a born-in and growing up I had afew scary things happen in my life. 2 instances where I could have died, the others just terrifying to a young kid. I use to pray for the normal stuff I guess, to be closer to jehovah, to do what he wants of me etc... but whenever I was scared, I never once prayed, I just dealt with it as it came. Same as the time I was caught in a rip as a kid and then another time I had to remain underwater, wedged between a cliff and rocks with water rushing over me in order to avoid being swept out to sea. Also had a violent drunk first stepfather and was sexually abused and I truly didn't think I would live past 16 years old. In none of those circumstances, even though I was a believer did praying to god even cross my mind. I just dealt with what came along and that was that.

  So even now I'm an atheist, I still have that same mentality. When things happen I just deal with it the best way I know how, which never included prayer. I don't like the fact that one day I will die, and I will probably try and avoid it for as long as possible, but it won't stop it from happening. Whereas if I was attacked, I would fight tooth and claw to save my life even if it meant taking their's in the process.
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  talesin

  jam

  I think my peace of mind came with the realization that I do not wonder from whence we came. The scientific theories about the Big Bang and evolution are interesting, and I do love science, but I am content to let the academics figure that all out, and decide where the truth lies. Life has not been easy for me, though, since I can remember. Many times I felt like the salmon, struggling upstream. Because of that, I was forced into living in the moment, in order to survive.

  When I realized (through learning from many teachers, both formally, and informally; ie, we are all teachers and students in our relationships with others) that life works best if one just 'goes with the flow', that was a lightbulb moment for me. I was no longer a salmon, but a limpet, being tossed and guided by the current of life. The lesson? Deal with today, enjoy the triumphs and the joys, and yes, even the sad and challenging parts - once we get through those more difficult times, we can reflect on the lessons learned from them.

  My realization that there is no supreme being, was more of a blessing than anything. No longer did I feel the need to shake my fist at the sky, and cry out "Why? why?" All I needed to do from that moment on, was deal with what happens in the now. I understood what my friend John meant when he said "Yesterday is history, tomorrow's a mystery - today is all we have, and that's why it's called the present, because that's what it is - a present".

  Is there more to life than the concrete? Well, yes. Physics tells us that there is no 'concrete'. Even this keyboard I am typing on, is NOT a concrete thing, but rather a construct of my own personal reality. Though I'm not well-versed in the subject, nor am I an educated scientist, I love reading and watching vids about the new thoughts on alternate universes - that makes the possibilities endless. Is death an end? I do not know. Perhaps there is an essence that continues on in another plane of existence; perhaps not.

  One thing I do know, is that my time spent in this life (and that may be all there is), will be of the best quality I can make it. I will seek bliss where and when I can find it, and fully feel the sorrows as well. I will continue to see life, as expressed by Ralph Waldo Emerson, "through the eyes of a child", as best I can.

  I like the principle of Gaia, which says, loosely stated, that we are just a part of one big organism - earth. We and the other living things are all one in this eco-system that has so much beauty, that one lifetime would never be enough to explore and relish it all. I cultivate humility, which allows me to enjoy other species as my brothers & sisters, and not some lower form of consciousness. I feel that the belief that we are 'better' than the other animals is humanity's greatest conceit. It brings me great peace of mind to feel in harmony with nature.

  xo

  tal

  NC -- Bahahaha! Had you fooled, didn't I? :D