What do you replace it with? (page 3)

James Brown

Man is a triune being; spirit, soul and body.

Prove it.

I know I cant prove it, thats why I point out that the sripture says each person must work out his own salvation.

In my life taking care of my spiritual aspect has worked for me and I have seen others it has worked for.

I have also seen those who didnt tend their garden kill them selves and end up in psych wards. I have spent a career

of cutting people off walls and ceilings in the county jail who didnt tend their garden. Then I get to sit with them in the hospital, and they tell me,

how they got there.

But thats me my life and my salvation being worked out. You have to see or not see for yourself.

snare&racket

"Yes it is too difficult for me to wrap my head around the concept of there not being a God. I have tried but intellectually, spiritually it's impossible for me. "

Having been a believer (pioneer, bethelite) and now a scientis and atheist, I can only tell you in honesty the biggest issue in getting your head around there being no god is having all the pieces to the jigsaw. It may sound like an insult, but it is not, as I said, I was once in the same situation.

If you dont understand intellectually how there can be no god... then you are missing huge pieces of evidence and scientific facts that point to the probability of no god. This is a long and effort filled process. It cant be argued in a forum.The choice is yours.. pursue the alternate view so as to understand how people much smarter than us can deny god.... or remian content with a belief that makes us feel good.

Mamba

P.s. Morals have nothing to do with a god that commands genocide/slavery/infanticide/blood sacrifice/racism. How can we have higher morals than the god that imprinted them onto us? Have you even read one book from a modern scientist explaining the origin of morals? Try Sam Harris... or someone else if he is not for you. If you have read books on morality, on what basis did you dismiss the evidence they presented? May I end with asking.... did Neanderthals have morals? Do Lions?

King Solomon

In my life taking care of my spiritual aspect has worked for me and I have seen others it has worked for.

Yeah, that's an "appeal to personal experience" and "appeal to popularity" argument.

Of course, the mileage you and others obtained is not a universal guarantee that it works for others. In fact, if it offered guaranteed results, then medicine would be forced to prescribe Bibles to convicts and criminally-insane individuals, announcing it as a miracle cure.

James Brown

Yeah, that's an "appeal to personal experience" and "appeal to popularity" argument.

Of course, the mileage you and others obtained is not a universal guarantee that it works for others. In fact, if it offered guaranteed results, then medicine would be forced to prescribe Bibles to convicts and criminally-insane individuals, announcing it as a miracle cure.

It kind of is. I am a detention officers. Prisoners that go to bible study get out of lockdown wich is seen as a privalege.

Its a management system. I immagine doctors are involved with formulating prison management systems of various states.

I agree there is no universal guarantee.

I'm not getting anything out of telling people there are answers in the bible. It works if you work it.

If somebodies car was broke down and I knew what was wrong with it, I would tell them.

If you want what somebody has, you have to do what they did to get it.

I have seen a lot of people that have peace and happiness, and they believe in Jesus and the bible.

I work with many people in a jail and the officers that are happy and have peace and like coming to work

believe in God and the bible and the officers that are unhappy and misserable for the most part are lost and confused

and dont believe in God or the bible.

It was the same in my previous career as a tool maker.

I dont go to church, I dont do anything but believe in Jesus. I'm not selling anything.

perfect1

Even compasses shift to point in different directions.

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012-poleReversal.html

But seriously, If god put a moral compass in me, why?

A) Did God create good and evil? If yes, then evil must have come from God along with goodness. So Garden of Eden was a set up, and God is not All Good.

B) Are good and evil external to God? If yes, then they are abstract categories out of His control- he is not omnipotent- since morality is outside of him.

if A), then good an evil are essentially arbitray as they are invented and created by God, only having validity through his authority which we are free to accept or reject- i.e. your moral compass.

if B) , then we don't really need him to tell us right and wrong, we will just sense it through our compass.

If you are going to look at the world in black and white, I think its nice to at least consider where black and white came from.

perfect1

Hey konceptual:

I have been thinking about your post- and I think your question is right on esp. w regards to time. If you fade you will find a whole new 30 hours in your week free with nothing to do!

I would consider replacing with:

a class- any kind at all

developing a talent you may have snuffed

socializing

exercise

going to a bar and practicing the art of conversation w no religious agenda.

Sometimes normal life can give you the answers, better than finding another belief system.

just my experience.

King Solomon

JB said:

It kind of is. I am a detention officers. Prisoners that go to bible study get out of lockdown wich is seen as a privalege.

Its a management system. I immagine doctors are involved with formulating prison management systems of various states.

I've practiced in State prisons on a healthcare provider contract, and many prisoners know "the game": they do the holy-rolling act for the Parole Board, and things go easier for them. The good news is they ARE playing a game, and that's the point: they were playing their own game, which is why they ended up in prison. So in that regard, the "accepting Jesus as your savior" is a societally-approved game, which is a step forward for them.

Frankly, I don't care WHY criminals are encouraged to not commit crimes: be it the law, or a fear of God, or Jesus' love in their hearts. Just as long as they don't steal from me....

I'm not getting anything out of telling people there are answers in the bible. It works if you work it.

If somebodies car was broke down and I knew what was wrong with it, I would tell them.

People are a bit more complex than a broken car....

ALL religions tout their "success stories": the convicted druggie/murderer who only lived for their next meth hit, and were rehabilitated by the love of Christ/Allah/Ahuru Mazda. Churches don't proudly proclaim from the pulpit when the person recommits, and ends up back in the slammer: surely you know that recividism rate of prisoners is high. It's a different scam, but it's still a game.

I have seen a lot of people that have peace and happiness, and they believe in Jesus and the bible.

I work with many people in a jail and the officers that are happy and have peace and like coming to work

believe in God and the bible and the officers that are unhappy and misserable for the most part are lost and confused

and dont believe in God or the bible.

It was the same in my previous career as a tool maker.

I dont go to church, I dont do anything but believe in Jesus. I'm not selling anything.

More appeals to personal experience, which is relevant primarily to one person, you.

And yes, you are selling something, whether you are honest enough to admit it: you're trying to sell Jesus to a bunch of ex-Jesus salesmen, so good luck with THAT, LOL!

They never seemed to know what they believed when I was in.

They complained about some bright light always getting in their eyes.

What do you replace it with?

Share this