What do you replace it with? (page 6)

tec

Armstrong argues that that the childish debates and struggles we have over God are based on how we define God in the first place.

Agreed.

Peace,

tammy

konceptual99

Thanks for the comments. As I said, I don't feel an urgent need to replace the "truth" with anything else in particular, not least as I am still in process of deconstructing a deeply ingrained faith.

It just seems pretty obvious to me that if you unravel the story of universal sovereignty, mankind's fall from grace, the ransom, restoration of a purpose on the earth etc. then you end up with an impotent God and a very large hole in logic about what the purpose of it all is if you have a super powerful being out there. I don't mean any offence to those that maintain a belief in God after leaving the WTS, after all time and perspective make a big difference to what conclusions one may come to to, but that's the route my brain is taking right now.

If logic leads me to develop an agnostic or even atheistic viewpoint then surely you have to look at things in a very pragmatic way and just say "it is what is it", try and be a decent person and not waste mental energy trying to find deeper meaning to life.

Sulla

I would suggest, konceptual99, that you want to avoid a common mistake. That is, you need to make sure that you burn the house all the way down: don't reject the JW conclusions while you accept the JW assumptions.

I say that because of this last post of yours where you basically say that, if the JWs are wrong, then the entire concept of God might be mistaken. My brother-in-law suffers from the same error: because the JWs are nonsense, religion is nonsense. He has, as I helpfully point out to him, continued to accept the JW conceit that all non-JW religions are "false," even as he rejects the JW idea that JWs are right.

You gotta pull out JW thinking all the way, roots and all. Dont implicitly accept the bullshit Jw argument, where else is there to go? Rip it out and then (much) later, reflect on the philosophical and religious attempts to find answers to the central questions of human existence.

My thoughts, for what they are worth.

donny

I, like many, tried to replace it with "traditional" Christianity, but in due time that avenue also proved to be unbelievable. You have to replace it with "Living in the Now" and making the best of it instead of just trodding along in this life and placing all your hopes and dreams of a better one in the future.

LV101

Now this is hearsay of an experiment done on ex-prisoners who became xtians that were tracked for many yrs --- not 3 or 5 but something like 20+ yrs. and didn't end up back in the slammer. I couldn't believe!

King Sol -- attys. and crim. lawyers would agree w/you about them being saved and seeing the light inside -- they chuckle at that one. I've only known 2 people who were in jail (fortunately), an ex hairdresser and a domestic worker (housekeeping) who became professed xtians and one of them was staging/playacting and the other may have cleaned up alittle. I guess it's a big crap shoot.

If we are born with a moral compass why such evil --- because of the strong animal traits we possess as humans, I'm assuming and the compass is weak -- no, wait, that's the flesh.

I'm not saying many haven't been changed by following Christ's wisdom but there are certainly some bad pew potatoes out there but maybe they're trying and change takes time/difficult.

trebor

@tec,

I am stating and writing this in the most sincere and honestly curious way as possible. This statement: “Christ is the truth... Christ is the image and word of God."

When and from where did you learn that?

For me, it came from the Bible. I believe for most (all?) that is where such a teaching originates. Whether you read it directly from the Bible or were taught that from someone who read the Bible.

Ignoring or looking over the Bible then, when you find something that "does not comport with the image Christ gives us of God" is just picking and choosing what you want to believe or follow from the Bible, is it not? Which conclusively then, could not the same ignore/look over type reasoning be applied to any and all Bible teachings, including the one of “Christ is the truth….Christ is the image and word of God”?

I'm honestly and genuinely being sincere with this inquiry. If the above logic is incorrect, please help me to understand from where or from whom and when did you obtained the belief that "Christ is the truth...Christ is the image and word of God."

King Solomon

Christ is the truth...Christ is the image and word of God."

And how is man any different from Jesus, since you may recall that man ALSO was claimed to have been made in God's image in Gen 2.

tornapart

I couldn't tell you what to replace it with as everyone is an individual and responds to it differently. Some find freedom in believing there is no God at all while others cast off the organisational doctrines and find Christ. Some carry on not knowing what to believe and find their way gradually on a voyage of discovery.

All I can say is whatver path you find yourself on, to enjoy the moment and what life has for you here and now. The biggest thing is to shake off all the shackles of preconceived ideas and start from scratch and you'll find what makes you happy eventually.

Personally I'm on the road to discovering a relationship with Christ and for me it feels wonderful. It is truly nothing like the heavy load the WTS piles on us!

You may discover a completely different road and wish you all the best on it as you discover new things!

King Solomon

BTS said:

That's a fascinating statement on your part. I've never heard or read that Christianity became the state religion because it permitted slavery. I did not know that Zoroastrianism was considered a viable option for a new state religion, or that Zoroastrians did not own slaves. I'd love to see evidence of all that from reputable sources. Furthermore, I am not aware of very many trendy little religions that survive three centuries of state persecution.

Yeah, well you should read a bit more about Zoroastrian beliefs, as well as the sociological development of adoption of Xianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire (a syncretic development of Judaism cultic beliefs with other influences, including Persian/Zoroastrian and Greek Hellenic (specifically epicurean) influence, etc)....

The adoption happened rapidly: the old cliche' of historians is that one century you could be executed in Rome for being a Xian, and the next you could be executed for NOT being a Xian.

A little-known fact is that Hebrews taken captive as slaves to Babylon were amongst the first benefactors of Zoroastrian anti-slavery beliefs (which was the first religion to adopt such a stance, something the Jews and Xians have yet to do). Jews were released by their Babylonians captives after the Persians under Darius defeated Babylon. Not that it made much of an impression on Judaism: they returned to Isreal, and continued THEIR slavery practices, just the same....

Nambo

I detect a case of confusion coming on, might do to read the Bible, which wasnt incidentaly written by JWs, well, maybe the NWT one was.

What do you replace it with?

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