by Scott77 254 Replies latest social relationships
OK, I am wrong everyone be afraid of everyone with penis that shows any interest in you what so ever!
He might not just be a needy, emotinal weak person, he could be a KILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLER!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just looked down. OH SHIT! I have a penis too!!!! RUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wait how do I run away from me?!!?!?!
Someone help!
CF-out!
" Mrs. Jones- I can tell by the way you keep accusing this guy of committing a crime that you have never experienced it. It was not an assumption but rather a deduction, and no it is not a bitch it is logic. People that have been in a plane crash don't joke about them. You don't know what I have been through or the true stalkers I have dealt with in my past."
I have nothing to prove to you Cagey and whatever crimes that may have been committed on my person are none of your business. Nice try.
Its still a "No". Buhbye little penis *waves*
NC- so is part of being a "liberated N. American" woman is continuing to date someone that you know you have no future with? No wonder I have no interest in most of the women I date. That seems a little dishonest don't you think?
Well it depends. Communication is key. Some people are fine just living in the moment, and seeing where things lead. Others are looking for forever, and so their time is wasted, and their feelings hurt if their partner doesn't share the same goal. I suppose it would be dishonest if one KNEW what the other one wanted, and hid their own motives. Not cool. Don't chip away at a person's time if you know that. On the other hand, if it has not been communicated, then there could be a misunderstanding. I tend to be honest and open about those things immediately. I talked to one man for quite a bit, but only went out with him twice. He wanted to go out again, and while I could have really enjoyed that, I didn't see anything long term for us. So I simply said so, and that's not what he was looking for, so I didn't go out with him again.
And do you know why I didn't see anything long-term? Because he told me I shouldn't do something that I do. It wasn't a big thing. But it didn't appeal to him. I don't like being told what to do, and certainly not by someone who only went out with me twice. I also didn't like him bitching about his kids music. Music was going to be the downfall of the child. I thought that was ridiculous. I reminded him of the music that he told me he liked as a kid, and pointed out that he didn't end up in jail or shaking a can on the street. That's a problem I have. Men my age act old. Sure, I feel pretty liberated and they seem to think that is fine, but when it comes right down to it, they have old ideas like Prog. And I just don't want to live with that. I don't mind compromise, but I will not answer like a child. I never would have been happy married to a JW, so I never married one. I know someone now that thinks a lot like me, and has NEVER tried to tell me what to do. And beyond that, he encourages me to pursue the things that interest me, whether he is interested or not. We had a bump in the road, it was external and just one of those things, but we still talk a lot, and maybe things will work out in the end.
Being sexually liberated (god, that term is old fashioned) doesn't mean that I sleep around or act impulsively. I've never been that way, even before I was a JW. It doesn't mean I seek sexual gratification regardless of who gets hurt. It simply means that I trust others to make those decisions for themselves, and as long as it is consensual, it's really none of my business. And in return, I expect the same. This strange idea that sexual liberation means some kind of orgy is just ridiculous. But I will construct my own rules, and not answer to some bronze-aged middle eastern god as gleaned from some dusty manuscripts.
Look, if you have anger toward N. American women because of some treatment you've received, then all I can suggest is you be a bit more careful and really try to communicate. It has nothing to do with 'sexual liberation' but has to do with character. Find people with better character. Be alert. Don't dismiss red flags, but follow up on them. I am a woman, so I am privvy to more female stories, but I'm sure this holds true for men also. I can't tell you how many women I know that ignored the red flags and entered really bad relationships. Nothing is guaranteed, but that doesn't mean we can't do our best to protect ourselves.
Just like the red flags I saw with that man I dated twice. I had finally learned not to dismiss those things. In the past I would have tried to just brush it aside, but no more. If he's willing to tell me what to do on a second date, even over a trivial matter, it will only get worse.
NC
I know we all hate cut and paste but this is a good article and it's closely reated to ths topic. I hope folks like Cagey will read it, I'm not hoping they will get it. If a woman determines, gets a feeling, that a guy isn't right for her or is just not right she has a right not to continue any sort of communication with said person. Silence isn't about being nice, it's about choosing who a woman wants in her life and feeling safe about it:
Is it Fear Or Is it Anxiety?
Last week we began talking about the difference between fear and anxiety. Real fear draws on your animalistic instincts and causes a sincere fight/flight reaction. Anxiety causes you to worry about the situation but you aren’t likely to bolt.
Anxiety can develop as a counterfeit trait to the true fear you never reacted to.
Gavin DeBecker in the classic book ‘The Gift of Fear’ is a Danger Analyst and has much to say about the preventability of most bad outcomes. He says there is Always Always Always a Pre - incident Indicator (a PIN) that women ignore. In my book, I call them Red Flags–the wisdom of your body that recognizes primitive fear and sends a signal to your body to react. In that split second, you can run or you can rename it. Renaming it causes your body to react less and less to the messages it does send. Not one woman in the 20+ years I’ve been doing this said there wasn’t an initial red flag that she CONSCIOUSLY ignored. Almost 100% of the time, the early red flags end up being exactly why the relationship ended. You could have saved yourself 3, 5, 15, 20 years of a dangerous relationship by listening to your body instead of your head!
Let’s go back to more stories by Gavin….
Dorothy says her ex-boyfriend Kevan was a fun guy with a Master’s degree and a CPA. “He was charming, and it never let up,” Dorothy says. “He was willing to do whatever I wanted to do.”
Eventually, Dorothy began to feel that something wasn’t right. “He would buy me a pre sent or buy me a beautiful bouquet of roses and have it sitting on the table–and that was very nice, but that night or the next day he wanted me to be with him all the time.”
As Dorothy shares her story, Gavin points out some of the warning signs–starting with Kevan’s charm. “A great thing is to think of charm as a verb. It’s something you do. ‘I will charm [Dorothy] now.’ It’s not a feature of [one's] personality,” Gavin says.
What happened next stunned Dorothy. “I was out visiting my sister in California, and he was calling me, calling me, and he asked me to marry him over the cell phone,” she says.
“I thought, you’re kidding. I’ve always said I would never get married again. And I said,
‘That’s the last time I’m going to talk about it.’”
After rejecting Kevan and coming home, Dorothy says he remained persistent. He showed Dorothy the picture of a diamond ring he wanted to buy and told her he wanted to buy a house. “And he had it all mapped out, how it was going to work for us,” she says.
When Kevan refused to listen when Dorothy repeatedly told him no, Gavin says it should have raised serious red flags. “Anytime someone doesn’t hear no, it means they’re trying to control you,” Gavin says. “When a man says no in this culture, it’s the end of the discussion. When a woman says no, it’s the beginning of a negotiation.”
After four and a half years and many red flags, Dorothy finally broke off her relationship with Kevan. But that wasn’t the end. “He kept calling me, calling me with repeated questions. What am I doing now? ‘What are you going to do tonight?’” Dorothy says.
“And that’s when I realized I am in trouble here.”
On the urging of her son, Dorothy got a restraining order on Kevan, which she says gave her peace of mind. “And that was a huge mistake,” she says.
One night, Dorothy was asleep in her bed when she woke up to the sound of her name being shouted. “I turned to my left shoulder, and I saw a knife about [10 inches long]. I could see the reflection of my TV in the blade. Then I saw that he had cut off surgical gloves, and that was scary,” Dorothy says. “I put the covers right over my head and curled into a fetal position and started praying. He said to me, ‘Are you scared?’”
Rather than panicking, Dorothy says she got out of bed, stood up and told Kevan he was leaving. As she walked calmly out the door, he followed her to the parking lot.
“So I said, ‘You’re leaving now,’” she says. “He turned, went down the street, and I didn’t see him again.” Dorothy immediately called 911, and police later arrested Kevan. He was convicted and is serving a four-year prison sentence.
Gavin says when Dorothy stood up, spoke firmly to Kevan and walked out; she was accepting a gift of power by acting on her instincts. “Fetal position is not a position of power, but you came out of it with a great position of power. And the pure power to say to him, ‘You’re leaving now,’ is fantastic,” he says. “Of all the details in that story, the one that stayed with me the most is that you saw the reflection of your little television set on the bedside table in the knife. And what that told me was you are on–you are in the on position…. You were seeing every single detail and acting on it.”
Just like ignoring your intuition, Gavin says the way women are conditioned to be nice all the time can lead them into dangerous situations. “The fact is that men, at core, are afraid that women will laugh at them. And women, at core, are afraid that men will kill them.”
This conditioning and fear, Gavin says, lead many women to try to be nice to people whose very pre sence makes them fearful and uncomfortable. They often believe that being mean increases risk, he says, when in fact the opposite is true.
“It’s when you’re nice that you open up and give information, that you engage with someone you don’t want to talk to,” he says. “I have not heard of one case in my entire career where someone was raped or murdered because they weren’t nice. In other words, that’s not the thing that motivates rape and murder. But I’ve heard of many, many cases where someone was victimized because they were open to the continued conversation with someone they didn’t feel good about talking to.”
In my own book ‘How to Spot a Dangerous Man’ I talked about cultural conditioning and how women feel they should be polite and at least go out with them once. If you’re saying yes to a psychopath, once is all he needs. Women also have HORRID and NON-EXISTANT break up skills. What in the world is more important than having good break up skills? You are likely to date a dozen men in your life time and not likely to marry but one of them. What are you going to do with the rest of them?
In this culture with all the books on ‘How to Attract Men’ very little is written about how to break up. Women spend more time on a Glamour Shots picture of themselves for a dating site then learning how strong boundaries can protect them. Women who are attracted to the bad boys don’t need the book ‘How to Attract’ — she’s already doing it. But how can she get rid of the pre dator she DID attract? (See our new book ‘Women Who Love Psychopaths).
Women buy our books, do phone coaching, and come to NC for 1:1′s, come to retreats all with a primary motive “Help me to never do this again.” While you definitely need insight about your own super-traits that have positioned you in the line of fire with a psychopath, you also need most the ability to reconnect with your internal safety signal. Everything in the world we can teach you will not keep you safe if you ignore your body. Our cognitive information can not save you the way your body can. That’s the bottom line. This is something you have to do for yourself.
This issue of real fear -vs.- mere anxiety is of utmost importance. It has really struck me this week that we may have missed something in our discussion about PTSD and its relationship to fight/flight reactions. Gavin helps us to see that fear happens in the moment–it’s an entire body sensation–the flash of fear followed by the intense adrenaline and fight or flight. The intensity of the body reactions usually COMPELS people into fight/flight.
With PTSD, I see how we have lumped more minor reactive reactions like ‘PTSD induced fight/flight’ with the real in-the-moment reactions of fear. I see them as different now. If women are THAT afraid of him and compelled by real fear (as opposed to worry ‘He might harm me in the future but he isn’t mad right now and not going to hurt me this second) she wouldn’t be with him because her animalistic reaction would be to flee.
Real fear IN THE MOMENT demands action. Our own ability to tolerate what he is doing suggests it’s not TRUE survival fear. This is the difference between animalistic/survival fear and our common day PTSD-reactionary fear.
Sometimes our body has reactions to evil, or pathology. Normal psychology should ALWAYS have a negative reaction to abnormal psychology. So your first meeting with him should have produced SOMETHING in you. It may not have been the true fear reaction that COMPELLED you to run away but you may have gotten other kinds of thoughts or bodily reactions to be in the pre sence of significant abnormality and sometimes, pure evil.
Listen. Your body is smarter than your brain.
http://saferelationshipsmagazine.com/the-gift-of-fearthe-curse-of-anxiety-part-ii
OK, I am wrong everyone be afraid of everyone with penis that shows any interest in you what so ever!
Stop being ridiculous. I have seen so much stalking, domestic abuse, and controlling relationships, that if a woman chooses to be careful, then who are YOU to call that out? Men should use the same caution. Nobody is obligated to give anyone a chance if they pick up on something that makes them uncomfortable. If you resent their caution, then that is your problem. Their goal is to take care of themselves. I have spent a great deal of my adult life single--by choice---and if I see a man looking at me in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable, I will leave the area. He may be perfectly fine with no bad intentions, but I am not obligated to ignore my internal alarms and find out.
Maybe if you spent less time lamenting that women trust their inner warnings and more time appreciating the self awareness and strength that takes, you'll be better off. There is no obligation to trust anyone until that trust has been earned. And there is no obligation to give anyone a chance to earn that trust. There are several times in my life when I paid attention to that feeling inside, and took steps to distance myself only to find out I was right. If someone has a problem with that, tough sh*t. I don't owe any explanations, and I certainly won't feel bad about it.
LOL---Mrs. J---my post was open while you posted. Point made.
And I think people have enough common sense to be able to detect a psycho.
yeah, right. Because victims of psychos are only people without common sense.
After reading that email most who responded to ths topic know who the psycho is.
As did Lauren. Her silence was wise.
| "...You could have saved yourself 3, 5, 15, 20 years of a dangerous relationship by listening to your body instead of your head!...When a man says no in this culture, it’s the end of the discussion. When a woman says no, it’s the beginning of a negotiation...Everything in the world we can teach you will not keep you safe if you ignore your body. Our cognitive information can not save you the way your body can. That’s the bottom line. This is something you have to do for yourself...” | |
| Reference from post #6 bymrsjones5 |
In other way, we call that 'the guts'. Sometimes, we are adviced to follow our guts.
Scott77
