Truly I say to you, Amen I say to you, Inferences from a Gospel manner of speech (page 5)

Wonderment

Some here may be placing to much emphasis on ALT's translator's list where supposedly we should expect the comma in Luke 23:43 before "today." As stated before, that list is not based on sound evidence. In fact, most instances do not have "today" to make it a parallel to Luke 23:43. And since Bible writers were Jews influenced by Hebrew and Aramaic culture, they are overlooking the ancient Hebrew or Aramaic idiom as Lamsa noted, where "today" was used as an expression of surety indicating when the statement was made (not to point to a future fulfillment). Take a look at William G. Ballantine's rendering of Luke 23:43:

“ I tell you truly to-day you will be with me in Paradise.”

Honesty will show the reader can interpret this either way. So, I don't see why some attempt to "kill" a Bible version that interprets it against the norm. The observation made by E. W. Bullinger is valid:

>> So here (in Luke 23:43), in the absence of hoti = "that", there may be a doubt as to the actual words included in the dependent clause. But the doubt is resolved (1) by the common Hebrew idiom, "I say unto thee this day", which is constantly used for very solemn emphasis (See note on Deut. 4:26); as well as (2) by the usage observable in other passages where the verb is connected with the Gr. semeron = to-day.

Without hoti : -- On the other hand, in the absence of hoti (= that), the relation of the word "to-day" must be determined by the context.<< End of quote

Most translators place the comma in Luke 23:43 before the word "today" according to their understanding. Others understand it differently, or leave it to the reader to decide, such as:

A Conservative Version Reverse Interlinear: “ TRULY I SAY TO THEE TODAY THOU WILL BE

WITH IN PARADISE ”

William Tyndale's Translation: “Verely I saye vnto the to daye shalt thou be with me in Paradyse.”

Riverside NT: “I tell you truly to-day you will be with me in Paradise.” (William G. Ballantine)

Scripture 4 All: ‘ Amen (verily) I am saying to you today with me you-shall-be in the Park (paradise).’

Revised Webster Translation: “Verily I say to thee this day, Thou shalt be with me in paradise. “

Diaglott (Some online editions): “Indeed I say to thee to-day, with me thou shalt be in the Paradise.”

Rotherham: “Verily, I say unto thee this day: With me, shalt thou be in Paradise.”

Concordant Literal Version: “Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise.”

New Simplified Bible: “Today I tell you this. You will be with me in paradise.”

21st Century NT: “Truly I am saying to thee today, with me thou will be in Paradise” (Left column)

“‘I promise you this right now,’ he answered, ‘you will be with me in Paradise.’” (Right column)

Nueva Reina-Valera 2000: “Te aseguro hoy, estarás conmigo en el paraíso”. [Translation: “I assure you today, you will be with me in Paradise.”]

Clear Word: “I promise you today that when I set up My kingdom, you will be there.”

James L. Tomanek NT: “Indeed today I say to you, you shall be with Me in the paradise.”

George M. Lamsa: "Truly I say to you today, You will be with me in Paradise" (Lamsa)

“Truly I say to you. Today* you will be with me in Paradise.” (My copy: The Holy Bible from Ancient Eastern Manuscripts, Holman Bible Publishers. * Footnote: “Ancient texts were not punctuated. The comma could come before or after today.”)

Ludwig Reinhardt: “And Jesus said to him: Truly I say to you today: You will be with me in Paradise.” (“The New Testament”)

Professor Wilhelm Michaelis: “Truly, already today I give you the assurance: (one day) you will be together with me in paradise.”

Santiago-Iglesias: (Translation of footnote): “‘TODAY’: more than a strict chronological indication (‘in these twenty-four hours’), although that meaning is not excluded, is the time of salvation, inaugurated by Jesus: ‘You don't have to wait. You're there, from this point on.’”

2001 Translation: “I tell you this today: You will be with me in Paradise.”

Versión Israelita Nazarena: "Truly I say to you: you will be with me in Paradise." ("“En verdad te digo hoy: conmigo estarás en el paraíso”.)

Thus, it comes down to your exegetical preference. May the debate go on!

kepler

In response to a question started in a recent topic, I just thought I would put this one back in the queue.

Splash

Was Jesus speaking literally when he said '... today you will be with me..'?

Looking at Genesis 2:17 "But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die", it indicates that the bible can use terms like this as a guarantee of something happening rather than a literal timescale.

smiddy

Does the Bible mean what it says ,? or does it say what it means .?,

When its left to imperfect human beings to decide what the Bible meant , what does that say about Gods word being from GOD ?

Anders Andersen

I just noticed that in Watchtowers own interlinear translation the Greek text contains a comma...guess where?

Right after 'I say'....

καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ ᾿Αμήν σοιto λέγω, σήμερονtoday μετ’ ἐμοῦme ἔσῃ ἐνin τῷ παραδείσῳ.

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/int/E/1985/42/23#s=43&study=discover&v=43

Diogenesister

Its always something that made me incredibly uncomfortable with the Watchtower translation. The expression "Trully I say to you"is used time and again by Jesus in the NTwith the comma after the you.

slimboyfat

Kepler it was fun back when we used to have threads like this.

Earlier in the thread you referenced a different thread about history. I wonder what thread that was.

And I wonder where Wonderment, Leolaia, and Earnest have gone.

slimboyfat

Anders the reason the KIT has the traditional punctuation is presumably because it uses the Wescott and Hort text including its punctuation. For that reason it's by no means the only instance where the KIT base text contains features that undermine JW theological positions.

nonjwspouse

I do so wish Leolaia would return, even if sporadically. Such a valuable contributor.

kepler

slimboyfat,

Sometimes when there's discussion of long running programs ( e.g., Dr. Who), people will talk about which actor was their favorite. But when they do, it reflects the moment as a child, adolescent or whatever, that they enjoyed the show. But same thing here. I agree. It was a great time to talk about the big ones.

Kepler

Truly I say to you, Amen I say to you, Inferences from a Gospel manner of speech

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