I'm going to see 2016 Tomorrow Morning! (page 3)

scotoma

Farkel: The only way you will enjoy this picture is if you leave your well tuned Bull S__T detector at home.

Same with Michael Moore. These guys complain about a divided USA but make their living by encouraging the division.

Obama's own written words from his book (and spoken by him in the audio version) present a clear picture of the chief influences in his life. He was steeped in Marxist ideology since birth. His parents and mentors were radical leftists and his entire pre-presidential career is evidence of his leftist Black Liberation theology/ ideology. He has never repudiated or apologized for these beliefs so is it really crazy B.S. to think that these do not influence his life, thought process, and policy as President?

If a politician with a similar background but from the radical right with the same sort of paper trail and friends were being discussed this person would have no chance at public office unless they engaged in constant repudiations and apologies related to these influences in order to "cleanse" themselves of this "evil"reputation. This is the double standard that masks the reality behind President Obama's administration and the majority of the media's lack of critical reporting.

Communism has gotten a critical pass when compared to Fascism because it has "the best interest of the poor and oppressed" as an emotion appeal which obscures the murder and misery it has created. The historical evidence has clearly illustrated that Communism can be every bit as deadly as Fascism despite all its good intentions.

This does not mean that President Obama is equal to a killer Commie but is it so crazy to be suspicious of his ideology? Not everyone who admires "Mein Kampf" and/or belongs to a Christan Identity church is a killer Nazi but it is perfectly normal to be skeptical of their thought processes and motives.

There are opinions and conjecture and then there are facts. All documentaries are varied % combinations of the three. "2016" is based on Obama's book "Dreams From My Father" and conjecture by D'Souza. Even if the subject of a book or film give 100% cooperation there is still opinion, obfuscation, conjecture, and mistaken memories involved and all the more so when your subject wants nothing to do with the project. Considering we have Obama's own words and actions to prove many of D'Souza's points I think that, as politically motivated documentaries go, 2016 is far from crazy-out-of-this-world in its premises and conclusions. Is it a perfect reflection of reality? Of coarse, it is not, but then again no documentary ever is.

Does President Obama lean left? I think any honest and well informed person would say yes. The real debate is just about how far left he leans. President Obama would not be well served by defining himself and so we must take what ever evidence is available and draw logical conclusions from these. Our level of fear, when it comes to Obama's motives, is based upon our own political ideology. If you are a leftist his policies are benificial and you do not fear their implimentation if you lean right these same policies will inspire anxiety. One person's conspiracy is another's promise for a better future.

At some point however, we need to remove our emotional blinders and push aside our fears so we can debate the best facts available from all sources and sort out the ideas based on their own merits but this is always easier said than done.

darth frosty

Liberty said: "His leftist Black Liberation theology/ ideology."

um NOTHING Obama has done point to any black liberation!

Farkel

Liberty,

I was going to write my review of the move, but honestly, your post just about wrote it for me. Well done.

scotoma,

: Farkel: The only way you will enjoy this picture is if you leave your well tuned Bull S__T detector at home.

So I take it you've made your evaluation after actually taking time to SEE the movie as I did?

darth frosty,

: um NOTHING Obama has done point to any black liberation!

You are quite wrong.

Farkel

BizzyBee

I was going to write my review of the move, but honestly, your post just about wrote it for me.

Not surprisingly, since nowhere does Liberty say that he has actually seen the movie.

So I take it you've made your evaluation after actually taking time to SEE the movie as I did?

Give us your review, Farkel. You may be the only person on this thread to have actually seen the movie.

talesin

Farkel,

I'm quite disappointed. Liberty obviously doesn't even know the difference between socialism and communism, and you are endorsing his/her evaluation of the movie?

I was lookinng forward to hearing *your* POV.

tsk, tsk

Liberty

Politics brings out strong emotions but I honestly am not trying to insult or accuse anybody of anything. President Obama is who he is and only he really knows what kind of person he is or the beliefs that he holds. All any of us are left with to form an opinion about him are his own words and actions. I just enjoy discussing philosophy, politics, and religion because they are the big ideas that make the human social world go round.

Yes, I saw the movie. I am a male.

Anyone can look up the definition of communism or socialism but knowing where one ends and the other begins is more difficult to pin down. In a political continuum was Franco's Spain the same defined fascism as Mussolini's Italy or Hitler's Germany? No, each one was unique but shared many of the same elements. Socialism is based upon the writings and ideas of Karl Marx so the ideology is marxist just as is communism. Common usage of these terms is of coarse different from dictionary definitions but when I used a "killer Commie" it was a humorous common insult just like when lefities called Bush a "killer Nazi". Was George Bush really a Nazi? I would even say that some provisions of the Patriot Act are nazi-like but does that mean that the U.S.A. is really a Nazi country? Many protesters say that it is and we all know the meaning in a common usage without requiring a dictionary definition

When I am forced by a government to pay for someone elses needs then we are dealing with various degrees of communalism and the debate becomes how far this will go. From his own words and actions Prsident Obama is more communalistic than Ayn Rand was. This is a fact. Our debates are about how far out on the communalistic continuum our politicians are. I am more libertarian than I am communalistic. George Bush is too communalistic for my taste. When I was young I was a marxist, communist, socialist, communalist, and voted for the Democratic party candidates. I have changed my beliefs over the years to a more individualistic philosophy and therefore disagree with most of President Obama's policies. Obama is "evil" only in the sense that he thwarts my goals and beliefs.

D'Souza and I disagree about religion. He is a Christian and I am an Atheist. In that sense, D'Souza is "evil", because he supports a belief system that I consider dangerous to human progress. Yet we agree to a large extent that Obama's economic, social, and foreign policy are "wrong" or even "dangerous" because we have different goals from President Obama. That is what this film was about.

Was I "evil" when I once believed in the Watch Tower's insane drival? Am I "evil" now that I am an Atheist ( I like Hitchen's Antitheist better, speaking of proper definitions). I hope not. We are all just people trying to find the truth and when we think we've stumbled on some we try and convince others to see things our way through debate and information exchange. The more information the better I say. Let us sort all the information out and come to our own conclusions. I want more documentaries about what people think on important big ideas as a break from the mindless entertainment movies we usually get. Not that I don't like some mindless entertainmemt now and then either.

BizzyBee

Socialism is based upon the writings and ideas of Karl Marx

???

Socialism pre-dates Karl Marx by more than 100 years.

Liberty

I can't say that I can read President Obama's mind so I am not 100% sure he believes in Black Liberation Theology. But realistically, would you really belong to a Black Liberation Theology church for 20 years if you strongly disagreed with the philosophy being preached? His actions prove that he must have liked the message since he stayed for so long.

If a person went to a Christian Identity church (white supremacist christianity) for 20 years as an adult could they realistically claim that they didn't agree with the core teachings. Would the media really give a politician who was a member of such a church the same pass that they have given Obama? His repudiation of Rev. Wright's extremist language was tepid at best and he has never contradicted the actual philosophy of the church.

Even in my own life when I finally reveal to my aquaintences that I used to go to a Kingdom Hall on a regular basis I must repudiate JWism over and over again as they are still suspicious that I may hold some JW notions. I was a child and forced to go for most of my time there and still I must hide my past or spend lots of time explaining that I no longer believe in this nonsense. All the more so for an adult convert. I am constantly told that I became an atheist or that I hold my opinions because of the damage done to my mind by the JWs. There may be some truth in this but can't I have come to my conclusions all on my own without crediting everything in my life to having been drug into the Watch Tower religion as a child? Why am I held to this standard and yet President Obama is not? Especially so since he hasn't repudiated the beliefs.

Liberty

If we want to get real picky about the dates philosophies started all communalistic belief systems predate Marx by thousands of years. All Marx did was codify and formalize these commonly held belief systems. Idividualism, capitalism, objective reality, all predate Ayn Rand as well but she codified and formalized them into a philosophy credited to her. When exactly communalistic/socialistic/communistic beliefs were first thought of is like me demanding that you tell me the exact date that the wheel was invented and by whom or otherwise you are not allowed to talk about Henry Ford and his cars.

I'm going to see 2016 Tomorrow Morning!

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