Professor Newbie
You've shared your credentials and experiences, so by all means, share your insight.
Maybe he read your intimidating and scathing rant against me and decided it wasn't worth contradicting you. Just a thought.
Cedars
5 Reasons Why the DEAF Masturbation Video is different than anything before...
by BluePill2 241 Replies latest jw friends
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cedars
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elderelite
Thats what you get cedars, you anti Thorite
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cedars
lol elderelite! Looks like I'm paying the price for "telling it like it is" with religions in general...
If you don't like the message, try to discredit the messenger.
Better still, try to scare the hell out of him in the hopes he'll shut up.
Cedars
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rebel8
I don't feel sorry for the interpreters beyond the fact that they're brainwashed.
They are adults who made a choice to discuss a highly private issue--that's none of their business to advise others on--in a demonstrative manner, on the Internet.
They should have listened to their Mother
Watchtower '08 - 1st Sept
“Why don’t you post your profile on the Internet?” someone suggests....If you are ever confronted with any of such situations, what will you do? Will you simply give in, or will you carefully consider what the “end afterward” could be? You would be wise to ask yourself: “Can a man rake together fire into his bosom and yet his very garments not be burned? Or can a man walk upon the coals and his feet themselves not be scorched?”—Proverbs 6:27, 28. -
King Solomon
Cedars said:
If you don't like the message, try to discredit the messenger.
Stop, please, as now you're only making me get misty, reminiscing about the commisseration we all shared with the JW persecution complex, back in the day....
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Paulapollos
Hi,
I must say, I've read King Solomon's posts with a fair degree of astonishment, and disbelief. I'd just like to say, before, I get into this, that my degree is in Sign Language, and Linguistics. My postgrad work is in Sign Language and Linguistics. I worked as a translator and presenter for the WT Society, in Sign Language. My family has profoundly deaf members in it, and I am classed as a native sign-language user. And my professional career, is as an interpreter and researcher in Sign Languages. So, you could say that I have some background in this issue. While some of KS's points are eminently reasonable, I'm absolutely amazed that King Solomon has said some of the stuff he has.
King Solomon said: "anyone who giggles and makes fun of the video is likely running the risk of insulting a protected classes language, making fun of hearing impaired."
Rubbish. While facial expressions (actually, they're called Non-manual Features) are part of the language, the nmf's used in the video are not "proper ASL" as you said. A number of expressions could be used by the presenter. The decision has been made by the translation team for the presenter on the video to manifest the facial expression of a weird, dry heaving, and above all, gormless expression. It is a deliberate choice, designed to negatively express masturbation. Why, exactly, should the fact that a person sees that facial expression and laugh, automatically mean that they are "mocking the deaf"? Get over yourself. It's a clear non-sequitur. I watched it. I laughed. My deaf family watched it. And laughed, and said "what the hell are they doing." Other deaf friends of mine watched it and had the same reaction.
King Solomon said: "his approach of exploiting a video designed for the hearing-impaired to get a cheap laugh". Again, nonsense. The reaction of deaf non-jw's to this video clip is "who the hell do they think they are, to tell us that". So some people find the video funny. Okay. And? Do you have proof that the motive behind the OP showing the video is "trying to get a cheap laugh"? I agree with you, the focus should be on the intrusion into private lives, but let's get something straight here. "try not to trample the boundaries of the hearing-impaired in the process by making fun of a video that accurately depicts someone communicating in correct ASL." There is no correct ASL, just as there is no "correct English". Laughing at a facial expression that the signer has chosen, does not mean the audience is mocking the deaf. You are making assumptions, and dare I say it, you are being offended on the behalf of "the deaf". Now let me say it here: THAT IS PATRONISNG. THAT IS OFFENSIVE. Deaf people don't need you to be the "protector of their dignity". JWFACTS had it bang on. "The purpose is not to insult a language, and anyone taking offense is being overly sensitive."
King Solomon said: "It's not hard to imagine the org consulted with ASL committees (whether JW only, or outside the org) before they proceeded with making the videos; it doesnt seem to be a sloppily-produced effort to me, in the least...." In that, you are entirely right, except the Society never consult outside groups in sign language, even tho they are obviously lacking in language skills.
Now let's get onto the bit where KS decided to say that BluePill2 was:
Sooo, then how do all the hearing-impaired posters on JWN (including LAmallcool, above) read and respond to posts, without being able to read? You've just perpetuated one of those ugly stereotypes about the hearing-impaired that shows a lack of awareness of their plight, the daily challenges they face in a hearing World that is ignorant of their experiences, and you aren't doing this to be an advocate or to help, but simply to exploit the disabled because it serves YOUR purposes. That's ugly...".
My god. KS, if I didn't think you were sincere, I would actually call you a complete buffoon. Here's a little statistic for you. Up to 70% of deaf high school gradutes in the US, CANNOT READ ABOVE THE LEVEL OF A TEN-YEAR OLD. FACT. You want the proof? Read Marc Marshark, from Gaulladuet University. Or Professor Bencie Woll from UCL. Or Professor Gabriella Vigliocco from the same institution. Or, ANY OF THE LAST 45 YEARS OF RESEARCH, from numerous institutions around the world - pm me, I'll send you the goddamn books myself, I've got hundreds of the bloody things. It's a fact. Where in the hell do you get off, accusing another poster of, essentially, discriminatory statements, without knowing MUCH ABOUT THE FIELD? Seriously?
This is where it starts to get surreal. KS gets into a discussion of translation, basing his authority on "The signs you find "hilarious" ARE an accepted part of the ASL, as confirmed by many deaf posters and translators." Do me a favour. That statement, in itself, shows you know NOTHING about the language. If I didn't know better, I'd say you are deliberately acting offended on behalf of "the deaf", and clutching at straws.
I mean, take this: "The parallel between the Hunter case and this masturbation video is that BOTH signs (in Hunter's case, the hand gesture of a pointed finger simulating a gun; in JW video, emulating masturbation) ARE signs that are part-and-parcel of ASL. Making fun of his finger sign isn't to be tolerated under all basic principles of human decency (not to mention the ADA); same thing here.... What you call "hilarious" IS someone else's PRIMARY means of communication in public with others: do you make fun of people with Chinese accents, too, or mock people with speech impediments? Same thing, no matter how you want to spin it."
Absolute rubbish, every word. Deaf people do not exist in a vaccum. They don't use the sign "masturbate" in general, everyday speech. It is a "taboo" sign, and is normally only used in conversations among friends, or as an insult. The reason that the Society used it is simple - it's because they wanted to be CRYSTAL CLEAR, and they lack the subtelty to approach the translation differently. As I said above, their language skills are LACKING, because they use amateur translators.
Now, before you get on your high horse, let me just make something clear. You use LadyLee, JGNat and others. Let me put this as clearly as I can. Lady Lee is WRONG. And she is WELCOME to send me a message and her evidence that proves to me that 45 years of research into the subject is INCORRECT. Deaf people, in general, are UNABLE TO READ ENGLISH TO A LEVEL THAT ENABLES THEM TO FUNCTION WITH THE SAME EFFECTIVENESS AS HEARING PEOPLE. God, is that so hard to understand? I have immense respect for LadyLee, she does a lot of good work. But, to quote, " I am not fluent in ASL and I can't read ASL very well. But I can get by with a lot of patience from them. My second daughter's first expressive language was sign. She could communicate with signs before she could talk.I am not just some person sitting on the sidelines." She is an deeply concerned person. But she is not a professional, nor is she a researcher into these issues. I am, my PHD thesis is on the cognition of deaf people, when reading written English. Oh, I can talk all day about eye-tracking studies, brain scans, and how we qualify and test fluency in English and Sign languages......but no-one cares, and I'm having a beer at the moment. So you can take my "opinion" on these matters to the bank.
As for JGnat, I don't know if he said that the "translators are deaf". But here's a little thing. After spending years at Bethel, ACTUALLY doing the job, I can assure you that the "translators" are not deaf. They're hearing, for very good reasons. The point is, you're just quoting things, to back up your own sense of unjustified outrage. And frankly, it's stupid.
In fact, I'm gonna stop here. Pretty much EVERYTHING you've said about this issue, in terms of facts, is WRONG. And what really, really pisses me off, is that you use these "facts" as a basis to get offended and attack people like Cedars. I could detail here, right now, all of your ridiculous mistakes, but it's so time consuming, and frankly boring, that I just cannot be bothered.
As a final point, I love the fact you talk about people with deaf family members learning sign language as an "act of love" and start getting all mushy and offended on my behalf - because that is me. Deaf parents. Do me a favor, don't use me as a cover. Argue your points with facts. Don't get all offended on my behalf. You're patronising, offensive, and frankly, you've overreached yourself. As Pistoff put it so well.
"What the hell are you talking about? Now you compare an enthusiastic and emotive ASL diatribe about masturbation by a repressed culty to yet another thing that is completely unrelated.
You need to get real. I think a video is funny, and now I am culturally insensitive and my world view is off??
If others don't get ASL, that is not my problem; deal with them.
I am not responsible for educating every fool out there, that seems to be your job.
WTF??"
Bang on.
PP
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whathappened
The watchtower society has pulled the video off you tube. I guess we can all go masterbate now.
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OUTLAW
The Video has been removed from the WBT$ web site..
LOL!!..
So much for trying to pretend..
There was nothing wrong with the Video..
You would think the WBT$..
Would be Proud of their 1st Soft Porn Video..
It has over 790,000 view`s on YouTube..
20,000 more than when I checked this morning..
..........................
...OUTLAW -
cedars
Professor Newbie
I don't think "persecution complex" quite describes what's happened here.
You launch at me from completely out of the blue with an intimidating essay that is clearly designed to make me fearful of being "outed".
Then you launch into generalizations about my "reputation" of being "blinded by WT hatred" and being willing to throw people under a bus in pursuit of my "agenda". All of this even though you've only been on the forum for two months and don't know anything about me.
I don't think my observations on your little hissy fit constitute a "persecution complex". More bewilderment that you can launch at me with such voracity completely out of the blue, without provocation.
Furthermore, it's easy to cast aspertions on my character since I've been open (to the extent possible) about my background and you have more information on me. You, on the other hand, have given us precious little information about you, and yet you expect us to let you bully us around with your litigous and wordy essay-like posts.
After all that, don't expect any warmth and cuddles from me, kermie.
Cedars
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cedars
The watchtower society has pulled the video off you tube. I guess we can all go masterbate now.
Strange, the YouTube video is still playing for me - even when I refresh it.
Cedars
...OUTLAW