I wonder whats the sign for cunnilingus
5 Reasons Why the DEAF Masturbation Video is different than anything before...
by BluePill2 241 Replies latest jw friends
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perfect1
WTF is going on here.
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King Solomon
Donut Hole said:
LOL @ Solomons crazy scenario about the Watchtower tracking down Cedars identity.
That was HIS stated concern, not mine, why he didn't want to file a counter-notice to fight WT's DMCA take-down.... My bad for thinking he actually was concerned about protecting his ID, but it's no skin off my wanker...
Cedars said:
And something tells me King Solomon would love to be the one who puts the cuffs on me...
Dude, no one said this is about CRIMINAL C.I., but only CIVIL C.I.
So in case you don't know the difference, the concern is not about these:
But your ISP getting served one of these:
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Billy the Ex-Bethelite
KS: "All I'm saying is that if you find that even remotely stimulating, then maybe it's good if you don't ever watch a real porn, or an old Madonna video, etc, or we may never see you back here again (and per WT, it can lead to homosexuality)."
I never said I found it stimulating. Now you're just trying to turn this into an ad hominem argument. You can't respond to what I said about the other Sign Languages, about Lady Lee, about fingerspelling in ASL, etc., so you try to present me as a pervert. You must have gotten your debate skills from WT.
I have better things to do with my time than read your arguments defending WT's rights. If you think they're so wonderful, join them in preaching to the Deaf Community about the evils of masturbation. And stand up for WT's rights to publish these materials to the Internet, and argue down anyone that says what they are doing is in any way inappropriate. And while you're at it, why not help them defend their right to maintain a secret database of known child molesters reported to Legal Department.
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talesin
CJ - it's in the vid!
:P
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King Solomon
Billy said:
I never said I found it stimulating. Now you're just trying to turn this into an ad hominem argument. You can't respond to what I said about the other Sign Languages, about Lady Lee, about fingerspelling in ASL, etc., so you try to present me as a pervert. You must have gotten your debate skills from WT.
See, the thing is all of your questions HAVE been answered, but there are some BASIC elements of the concepts that are discussed that are overlooked, such that I just gotta go, WTF? Ah, hell.... It's an important topic, and worthwhile discussing, so let's try here for the sake of understanding sign language (and I'm not exactly the one who SHOULD be explaining it, but I think I know the answer to your confusion, and I am always open to new insight, if someone sees a mistake).Billy said:
"The translator quickly falls behind"... behind what? The ASL video is 4:53. The audio recording is 2:53. No effort is ever made to rush the ASL videos so that they sync with any soundtrack or any kind of time restriction. Nothing would have been "crowded" if he spelled masturbation rather than pumped his hand by his crotch and then gestured rubbing female genitals.
If saving time were an issue, why does he gesture for BOTH male and female manual genital stimulation. It would have saved time if he would have just gestured for male masturbation (after all, the Youth book said that 95% of males jack off, but only 2% of women do, or something like that). Particularly the first time he signs all his masturbatory gestures, he could have spelled the word in less time.
The point you're missing is that ASL is used for MORE than making silly anti-masturbation videos (!), but is used in real-time translations of speeches in KH's. Live 'real-time' translation of a speaker's words is NOT like the scenario encountered in the video, where the translator is free to sign at his own pace, since he's signing off a printed copy of the literature (the Youth book, or whatever that is: it came out long after I was left JWs).
Now if a signer is translating real-time or "live" at a KH, he will not KNOW what the speaker is going to say next, so he is LISTENING; the greater economy afforded by ASL (where a single sign often contains a PHRASE, i.e. multiple words) over SEE (where each sign is a INDIVIDUAL WORD) allows for faster, more easily-read translations. The SLOWEST signs of all are manually SPELLING out words, using the alphabet.
Clearly the benefit of ASL is it offers a more-compact communication via gestures, where a single sign, combined with a facial expression, carries MUCH more capabilites. In tech terms, different sign conventions are analogous to having a 10Mbps connection (ASL) vs 3Mbps (SEE) vs 24k dial-up (spelling the words out).
You mentioned something about the word "masturbation" not even being in the Bible, which is goofy: yeah, maybe, but so what? The word 'masturbation' IS in spoken English language lexicon, and it was in the source material for the video (the Youth book), so the translator signs using the standard English-language word that's used, and uses the corresponding ASL sign: it's not up to the translator to NOT translate the word, since it's NOT in the Bible. That's nonsense.... The word is in ASL, and used in the Youth book: that's what matters.
TRANSLATORS are NOT editors, or there to 'improvise' or 'embellish', or add editorial thoughts or opinions into a translation. That's NOT what translators do....
Remember that LadyLee uses SEE; unless I'm wrong, I think it's more commonly accepted to spell out words with SEE, but obviously it's not as efficient. My family member learned SEE back in the 1970's, but went to get her ASL certification when that change happened. ALL sign languages, like ALL languages, evolve.Billy said:
I have better things to do with my time than read your arguments defending WT's rights. If you think they're so wonderful, join them in preaching to the Deaf Community about the evils of masturbation. And stand up for WT's rights to publish these materials to the Internet, and argue down anyone that says what they are doing is in any way inappropriate. And while you're at it, why not help them defend their right to maintain a secret database of known child molesters reported to Legal Department.
Billy, I didn't waste my life in the WT, so don't pull the Comfy thing on me. I didn't go to Bethel, or F/T pioneer: I was out by 13, went to a regular school (not home-schooled). I studied music as a drummer/pianist (my old man is a pro-musician well-known in the LA music scene, so I grew up hanging out with friends and playing and learning with the likes of guys like Larry Carlton, Abe Laboriel, the guys from Toto, Lee Ritenour, etc). I joined an USAF band (my old man did that when he was younger, too, and guys like drummer Steve Gadd, my idol at the time, played in military bands when young). I played music professionally, lived and travelled around Europe in my early 20's, but decided to go to college to get a science degree (music degree wasn't interesting to me, as I didn't want to be a school-band teacher). One thing led to the next, and I ended up with a doctorate and a good career.
Please don't project your life decisions on others, because it's likely to not fit. I'm glad you figured out the TATT, but don't think others didn't figure it out and were in a position to act on it eariler (me, back in the 70's). I know what it's like to be in college surrounded by younger people, BTW. I didn't get done with college until my mid-30's (I did military, changed majors, etc).
Just out of curiosity: what are you studying (your major)? What kind of engineering? Liberal arts are a good thing for engineers (my friend from military was an EE with interest in power-transmission, got a PhD and writes software code: earning big $$$, but defo shows a lack of liberal arts education).
Tell ya' what: you take a course in basic principles of law (not law school, just a business course with a law element), and then we'll talk about IP law. I enjoy the topic (my GF at Berkeley while I was in my doctorate-level program was a Bolt Hall law school student @ Cal, so I had an immersion in law, whether I wanted it or not! Her friends were mostly law students, and I found I picked up via osmosis (not really, but....)).
My law knowledge has grown, but it's had MANY practical applications in my life, not only in the medical-malpractice arena (as a provider), but also the principles of IP law (copyright/trademark/patent) which is important to my prior life in music biz, but also legal aspects of sampling other's work, etc. Music clearance/rights/licensing, etc. I follow a few IP law podcasts (Denise Howell has a show on TWiT which keeps up with IP law technology, and there's a podcast by a local LA entertainment lawyer named Gordon Firemark that I like, and have followed for years). DMCA is not a foreign acronym to me: I know the process, as I deal with it.
So guess what? I know things you don't know, and have done things you haven't done: so what? You've done things I haven't done.... No need to get one's panties in a twist over it. Life's too short for ignorant aggro. I'm not here to argue, or play "mine's bigger than yours"; if anyone want to quibble, so be it, but they need to realize the only ones they're depriving is themselves.
Citing Cofty's Law: you can take people out of the close-minded JW environment, but it takes a bit longer to open the minds. No one should be a Cofty: I wouldn't have gotten so much from learning from others (including here) if I had only listened with closed ears and closed mind.EE said:
As i feel like ive been shouting from the rooftops: there more than enough, in ANY language, to make the point, and it isnt the language itself. Its the message.
Get down off that rooftop before you fall, or get struck by lightning! We hear ya'!
It's an interesting issue tho, as people lose the sensitivity to the emotional impact of their own spoken/read language, such that they no longer think or feel what's actually being said until they see the same idea expressed in a different symbology. But the message is the same...
The idea is related to that depicted in Orwell's 1984, where certain words are removed or replaced from the language in order to modify the emotional impact (news-speak)..
Here's an interesting auditory-visual perception demonstration of hearing people actually "hear" with our eyes: it's called the McGurk Effect.
Instructions:
Close your eyes, play this movie, and listen. Open your eyes, replay and listen again (a second video is below the first, but it's the same video). Is he saying "ba ba" or "da da"?
This video demonstrates the McGurk effect. The man in this video, and its creator, is Arnt Maasø, associate professor at the University of Oslo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFPtc8BVdJk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFPtc8BVdJk
Here's the explanation:
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elderelite
Billy, you lept from a simple discussion over wether its legal to post the video(s) without permision to suggestig KS should be a publisher... Thats one of those silly leaps that gets expressed in frustration. Reality is, the video is copyright protected and could be pulled via dmca request. We saw it with the ks 10. That it is video in nature and not printed makes no differance. On that point KS is spot on and it cant rationally be reasoned away. Theres over a centry of american copyright law supporting the point.
Its not defending the org to have a rational POV. I dont agree with KS that this is mocking deaf people because they are deaf, but it is a legimate POV that we should be able to discuss as rational people without resorting to dismissing it as 'being an apologist'. Thats the apostate equilivant of calling someone an uncle tom. Its easy to do, it dismisses the person as a sympithizer with the evil wt slave owners and says their view point is weak and shows they are enalaved mentally if not physically. Your better than that billy.
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cedars
King Solomon - no need to get so hung up about cuffs, I was having a joke.
If the Watch Tower Society wants to move heaven and earth to come after little 'ol me - they're welcome to try. I suspect they have bigger fish to fry though. If all else fails, maybe I can get a room in the Ecuadorian embassy next to Julian Assange!
Listen, I understand you're just trying to bring some rationalism to the board, but I disagree with you on two key issues:
- This "masturbation" debacle is NOT about making fun of deaf people or sign language - those are apologist arguments. This is about making fun of the Society's ridiculous and deeply invasive laws and the serious lapse in judgment that led to two interpreters demonstrating what Jehovah's Witnesses SHOULDN'T be doing in such a needlessly graphic way (including the facial expressions).
- You have been here for two months and you already feel it is your duty to enforce the posting guidelines and tell people what they should or shouldn't be including in their posts. I personally find this more than a little presumptuous, and I would appreciate hearing some of your background before taking any lectures from you. In the case of your lectures toward me, it appears as though you are trying to intimidate me for some reason, and I do NOT appreciate that from anyone, let alone some guy who's been here for 2 months.
I also think your essay-like replies are WAY too long. If you're so right over such simple issues, then surely a man of your obvious intelligence can express yourself more succinctly.
Cedars
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Broken Promises
Did someone mention cuffs?
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jmorgan74
King Solomon, I just wanted to say that I appreciate your posts and viewpoint here. Thanks for being a voice of reason.
Thanks,
Jack
