Do they really have two versions of the Watchtower ? One for the cong and one for field service?
There is a Public WT and the Study edition of the WT for JW's.
Hassan's New Book: Chapter 2- What is Destructive Social Influence ?
by flipper 55 Replies latest jw friends
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flipper
SCOTOMA- Well, the Bible was right from the aspect that yes " bad associations spoil useful habits " - especially if a person associates with mind controlled drones who are manipulated and controlled in a negative way like WT leaders manipulate their JW members. I disagree with you about parents. Many parents DO have an influence on their children , some in a negative way, some in a positive way. Depends on the parents and how they operate.
You mentioned that you don't see " anything unique about Watchtower control ". That " organizations demand loyalty however they define it ". O.K. fine. But you must agree that most organizations don't tell their employees to shun or avoid their relatives just because the relatives aren't in the organization . So yes indeed, the WT society IS unique in that they put extreme social pressure on JW members, even bordering on illegal activity like telling JW's not to report child abuse to police at times but to report it to elders first. And as regards a person who is truly independent being considered schizophrenic ? WTF ? Where the hell did you get that idea ? And many independent people aren't lonely at all. I'm independent yet I have many dear friends. And to my knowledge I'm quite sane - not schizophrenic at all. Perhaps you need to research psychology a bit.
XANTHIPPE- Yes indeed as Rip Van Winkle said they DO have 2 versions of the WT magazine now, one for newbies or people out in the field and one for baptized members they use at the WT study only.
RIP VAN WINKLE- Thanks for answering that question ! I appreciate it. Been busy today doin' yardwork ! LOL ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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scotoma
Flipper:
This is not a formal paper for publishing. I'm entitled to use rhetoric (persuasive language) just like you have done.
Notice I didn't say that independent people are "lonely" I said they would be "very alone".
I also said 'MAYBE even schizophenic" You are implying I was making a STRONG association between independence and schizophrenia.
I accept responsibility for not being explicit about where these "independent" people are on the continuum of dependent-independent.
Religions have historically meddled in people's private lives. Those religions that hold to the older traditions do things that we now consider bad.
Some religions with millions of adherents still kill heretics. The middle east is the original "bible belt".
Extreme practices like shunning are valuable. It should be a red flag to people thinking about joining. Nature gives warning colors to potentially poisonous plants. A rattle snake makes its distinctive rattle when you get too close.
Do you want to know what its like to be an ugly unathletic nerd? Society shuns all the time. The biggest problem with JW's is that they are wrong.
If they were right I would gladly do anything they asked if it really meant I could live forever. If Muslim's were really "right" and Allah really rewarded you with some large harem if you blow yourself up in a cafe then that might be a decent choice.
I hope you understand my illustration. Or are you going to jump to the conclusion that I'm advocating suicide bombing.
Cool it. My point was that JW's like all religions are left-overs from a different time. They aren't unique. At least they don't still carry on the ritual of sexual mutilation (circumcision).
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scotoma
Flipper,
One more thing. I have read close to 2000 books on psychology. The experiment that Hassan describes using the MBTI is seriously flawed.
The study referred to was never published in a peer reviewed journal.
If you are interested in some of the problems with that research check out this blog:
"Perhaps YOU need to research psychology a bit."
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Phizzy
Interesting thread, I think Hassan makes some good points, even if the "science" behind them is doubtful in some instances. I like his point about even born-ins having a real "them" inside, I did, and after many decades in the WT cult that real me blossomed in no time after I left, it was the real me that got the whole me to leave.
The slow forming of the cult personality was illustrated for me in the case of a young man I studied with back in the day. When I first contacted him he was a selfish, obnoxious, drug using sex addict. A bit of a challenge for a JW.
I concentrated on getting him to take on a more Christlike personality, not a cult one, to care about others, to take responsibility for his life and his actions. He became a much nicer young man.
He then started his own "career" in the religion and wanted to be eventually a C.O, he started Regular Pioneering and spent nearly all his time with fellow Pios.
Slowly the cult personality was born in him, he became less caring, more judgemental and much more the archetypical Jehovah's Witness, in my opinion not as nice as when he humbly used to take on board the advice to be a nicer guy.
Strip away the cult personality and in most cases there is a pleasant person underneath, but all the time they are controlled by the cult, as that young man still is I am sorry to say, the real personality is buried deep.
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flipper
SCOTOMA- Oh well, I'll just agree to disagree with your views. You are welcome to them . Thanks for contributing to the thread.
PHIZZY- I agree with you, I noticed a big change in my personality after exiting the Witnesses 9 years ago, I became more of a critical thinker and formed my own thoughts on things as opposed to being TOLD what to think by the WT society. A more authentic natural personality came out. As your example of the young man shows the JW cult can and has had an extremely negative influence on how these JW's act as human beings. Many have no empathy or emotional maturity at all. But the authentic personality can be restored if the cult personality gets stripped away
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breakfast of champions
FLIPPER - have enjoyed reading your threads on the new book. When I have the time I will certainly get my own copy and read it.
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OnTheWayOut
I've read chapter 2. I did like how Hassan mentions the term "brainwashing" and compares it to "social influence." Any JW who hears "brainwashing" would automatically reject the idea of such a thing happening with the Watchtower organization. He pictures this as only happening to prisoners or prisoners of war at the hands of abusive jailers.
But "social influence" is accomplished by agents viewed as friends or mentors. It gives the illusion of control to the person being influenced. He lets his guard down, lowers his defenses and ceases objections. He actually believes that he is making his own choice to do or say or believe what the agent is telling him. He disconnects his own critical and decision-making capacity.
We've seen that (or experienced it within ourselves) when asking a JW a question he is not prepared to answer. He says "let me do some research and get back to you." He reads his Watchtower literature and tells the questioner that "he" believes whatever he reads. If the Watchtower changes the doctrine, he changes his belief along with them.
And yes, all people have an authentic self. I called it the non-cult personality when I first read COMBATTING CULT MIND CONTROL where it was called pre-cult personality. Born-ins don't have a pre-cult personality, but even they have an inner sense of what they truly feel is wrong or right, optional vs. mandatory, preference over conformity. We see many JW's that enjoy activity that WTS would call questionable. We see die-hards that hate to disturb people at their homes on a holiday (or any day) and look for ways to blow off such activity.
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scotoma
Flipper:
"Oh well, I'll just agree to disagree with your views. You are welcome to them . Thanks for contributing to the thread."
The statement "agree to disagree" is an example of the FALSE COMPROMISE FALLACY
It is a way to end discussion not further it.
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scotoma
Flipper:
"Oh well, I'll just agree to disagree with your views. You are welcome to them . Thanks for contributing to the thread."
The statement "agree to disagree" is an example of the FALSE COMPROMISE FALLACY
It is a way to end discussion not further it.