Hassan's New Book: Chapter 2- What is Destructive Social Influence ?

by flipper 55 Replies latest jw friends

  • ziddina
    ziddina
    "ZID - I am living evidence that his statement IS true! Yes, it takes a lot of honesty, pain, and frankly, hard work to discover your true, authentic self after being raised in this cult, but it is certainly possible. " BOC

    Well, Yes, Breakfast of Champions, but did you get YOURSELF out, or did someone else GET you out??

    That's the crucial difference.

    If one discovers the reality of the cult for themselves, they walk out. The difficulties arise when one has a loved one stuck in, and attempts to "deprogram" or reveal the false teachings of the Watchtower Society are perceived as "satanic" by the person still 'in'. That's when the walls go up, and from what I've seen on this board, some beloved wives, children and other relatives seem to be permanently stuck in the cult mentality.

  • rip van winkle
  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Yeah, I saw it - I'm just behind in my reading, right now. I'll get to it, I promise!

  • flipper
    flipper

    ON THE WAY OUT- I subscribe to your same opinion on Steve Hassan, I believe he has good motives and is reputable. He has a degree in psychology as well so he knows his stuff.

    ZIDDINA- You are right, in the old methods of deprogramming and cult exit counseling the methods were more aggressive and as you say a " still in " JW would feel like Satan was attacking him or stealing him or her away. But with Hassan's new methods more emphasis is put on authntic love and authentic family relationships in order to reach the cult mind controlled relative. So hopefully some of us will be successful using Hassan's methods ! I hope I am with my daughter ( s) .

    RIP VAN WINKLE- Thanks for posting the link to my other thread !I appreciate it

  • scotoma
    scotoma

    Another concept that is thrown around is "authentic self". That's some real BS (bogus science). Even supposing there is such a thing as "authentic self". What even are the dimensions of "self" that you could compare an "authentic self" with an "unauthentic self"

    The very fact that some of you get upset over my criticism of the mighty HASSAN is troubling.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I know Scotoma isn't talking to me about being upset over criticism, because I thanked Scotoma for additional information and gave merit to the MBTI information provided. But really, from reading 2000+ psychology books, you must have seen even the experts getting "upset" over their differences. You should at least be able to come up with your own theories on authentic self. Here's mine:

    None of the following is from any Steve Hassan book.

    The false self (or the cult personality) of a believing Jehovah's Witness is that part of them that allows Watchtower to be their guide in developing their opinions on all matters of things. It suppresses the authentic self often, sometimes even all the time.

    It typically gives the illusion that such opinions are genuinely from the authentic self. It may be an inner critic when it is combatting the authentic self- "What would Jehovah (actually the Watchtower) think of my desire? Would Jehovah consider my thoughts or feelings or actions as sin?" Such an inner critic would be guided primarily by fear.

    Constantly cycling thoughts over and over can be an indication that one is in the false self- possibly continually justifying the decision or belief that the authentic self wouldn't agree with. An example could be justifying how political involvement would not only displease Jehovah (Watchtower) but that it actually wouldn't make any difference, where the authentic self is very conservative or liberal and wants to vote and put the right person in office.

    Generically, (not cult specific) the false self is simply misguided energy that was created at some point for survival, like the example of joining a gang and going along with whatever they do. For a JW, the survival part can do with the idea of everlasting life or simply maintaining contact with friends and family.

    The authentic self is our true essence, guided by intuition which may or may not be trained. It could be our best guess of what to do or think when not consulting the Watchtower. Our on-the-fly reactions to situations. A JW could say there's nothing wrong with personal research in secular materials until they discover that Watchtower is against such research. The true authentic self made such a decision and later the false self suppressed it when it let Watchtower be its guide.

    If one doesn't consult Watchtower or thinks that their authentic self is in harmony with Watchtower already, thoughts from the authentic self can be met with ease and peace. It is typically only when considering or discovering a conflict that such thoughts cause fear and panic.

  • ziddina
    ziddina
    "Generically, (not cult specific) the false self is simply misguided energy that was created at some point for survival, like the example of joining a gang and going along with whatever they do. For a JW, the survival part can do with the idea of everlasting life or simply maintaining contact with friends and family. ..." On the Way OUt, page #3

    I enjoyed your entire post, OTWO, but especially liked the above point.

  • flipper
    flipper

    ON THE WAY OUT- Been working out of town a couple days, finally have time to respond. I enjoyed and agree with your post above. JW's are actually duping themselves into believing that THEY have the locus of control in their decision making processes - when in actuality , they don't - out of fear or intimidation of losing family or an unrealistic fear of an alleged " Armageddon " both promoted by the WT society rank & file JW's remain mind controlled and stuck in a destructive cult.

    Also in scientific research it's been shown that the synapses of the brain over time get trained a certain way and electrical impulses keep inputting the same JW information into these people's minds. Once a person stops having that mental cult garbage inputted into their brain and replace it with alternative, free thinking healthy information - then new electrical impulses transmitting new information and images will assist a cult controlled person to think critically, differently, and inevitably exit the cult in time. In my opinion that's why it's so important for people to stop attending JW meetings if they truly want their minds to be free of the indoctrination process .

    ZIDDINA- Howdy partner ! I enjoyed OTWO's info too ! He's a smart cookie and a good friend

  • sizemik
    sizemik
    The very fact that some of you get upset over my criticism of the mighty HASSAN is troubling.

    Geez dude . . . you label him a "cult leader" and "full of shit" . . . and now the "mighty" Hassan. We all have biases, but attacking the messenger with ad-hominems doesn't qualify as criticism in an intelligent debate . . . and severely damages your credibility. That should be of greater concern to you.

    OTWO . . . well put.

  • scotoma
    scotoma

    OTWO:

    I said close to 2000 psychology books. Not 2,000+ but 2,000- still close.

    Obviously you have a pretty good grasp of psychology without reading so many books.

    I like your point about "mis-guided energy". That puts it in the proper context and steers clear of ambiguous ideas about some authentic self.

    Our self is always authentic. I prefer the word "disoriented" self. Garbage in - Garbage out.

    There is a dimension of the Five Factor Model of personality called "openness".

    The standard bell curve applies to the distribution of this trait.

    People high in openness to experience are always challenging the status quo and authority. They tend to be more creative and less rigid. They also tend to be liberal vs conservative.

    Life crisis' can push a person into re-examining their orientation. Those who are low on openness don't do a good job at challenging the options set before them. They are especially vulnerable to religious conversion. Once they make up their mind it is very hard for them to change it. These are people that don't want to be bothered with the challenge of constant re-evaluation.

    A lot of people leave JW's and continue to believe in God and the Bible and all the fantastic false promises that are the fabric of all religions. These mainstream religions are made up of people that are willing to risk their life in warfare even killing fellow believers in other countries.

    Openness to experience is highly heritable. This suggests that perhaps some peoples "authentic selves" are really gullible and resistant to change. Others "authentic selves" live their lives challenging everything.

    Hassan does seem to have toned down his techniques. While we can't say for a certainty that love never fails we can be sure that if love doesn't work then nothing will. Telling people how much they are loved gets them to believing lies. Telling them how much they are loved can get them to believing in the more conventional lies of their non-JW relatives.

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