This thread is making me think. PLEASE STOP THAT NOW, lol!
Ill check back later tonight (after a stiff drink).
Believing in God - Challenge
by jgnat 153 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Finkelstein
If we could just imagine a god appropriate for the time we live in, that being the 21 century.
A real humanist god.
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frankiespeakin
Finkel,
That might be better,,BTW Jung thought the idea of a single diety an advancement over polytheism,,He thought a quadernity was a better choice, four gods in one, and Satan should be included to balance the whole thing. He thought that combination might do the psyche some good,,and that this all good deity and apposer all bad deity,,split the psyche up to much and can cause problem with repressions as sin is to be hated and such.
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soft+gentle
I think it is always good to be faithful to one's gut feeling but I think this has to be kept in torsion with trying to always be rational. But i don't think one should go so far as to ignore one's gut feelings and emotions because imo these are what develop a person's soul and if this is the case then it is hugely important to stay faithful to our feelings. But on the other hand there is the problem of giving in too much to feelings so that they cloud our judgement.
But then again when I was a witness and believed in God I relied heavily on the peace of God - my fav scripture was the one in phillipians "the peace of God will guard your thoughts"...But the problem then was that I tended to let important things, that needed dealing with, slide. So I definitly think there needs to be a sort of torsion going on between feelings and rationalism. I love it when artists and musicians display this tension in their works
One problem I have with morality without God is that people often do what is expedient for themselves first and then for others - behave in a machiavellian way for example and this would probably still be altruistic in an evolutionary sense but definitely not egalitarian. I guess one would need soul to be egalitarian
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Elephant
Is it possible that there is a part of us that reaches beyond our base natures, to reach for that which is bigger than ourselves?
...jgnat, the question implies that you do have a part that is reaching out beyond...
...these ruminations confirm, if not our capabilities to comprehend, then our desire (or even more elementary, our curiousity) to reach what is bigger than ourselves...
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Finkelstein
Is it possible that there is a part of us that reaches beyond our base natures, to reach for that which is bigger than ourselves?
Perhaps yes if all humanity was in complete agreement to this idealogical concept and was morally better than any imagined deity
from the past ancient world.
The gods worshipped still today are just and only worshiped lies and embellished mystical stories, they do not hold true humanistic values.
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Elephant
Perhaps yes if all humanity was in complete agreement to this idealogical concept and was morally better than any imagined deity
from the past ancient world.
...finkelstein...this implies that free and individual thought are not compatible with achieving self fullfillment...
...which is better? ...comprehension of God or free and individual thought?
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Knowsnothing
...which is better? ...comprehension of God or free and individual thought?
Should this be rephrased as, "obedience to Jehovah or free and individual thought"?
You do believe that Jehovah is the Sovereign, right Elephant?
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Elephant
You do believe that Jehovah is the Sovereign, right Elephant?
knowsnothing...I most absolutely do...and your first question is a question that can only apply to me personally as only I know what I understand...for proof, answer your own question as I'm sure you differ from me...
... God can be anything and anyone you want it to be...perhaps that is jgnats objective here...deciphiring what or who God is to her...
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jgnat
Elephant: perhaps that is jgnats objective here...deciphiring what or who God is to her...
Still Thinking: What difference does a god make in your life? If you don't believe in an afterlife surely belief in a god must have some positive impact in your life to justify continued belief, otherwise what is the point?Perhaps it is time to revisit my purpose for this thread, and to explain what I believe now. My original intent was to engage King Solomon in a debate. I enjoy the back-and-forth of a well thought-out discussion. I had the feeling that KS would be up to it, and I wanted to offer a greater challenge than his regular slam-dunk on bible subjects.
I see a tendency in society to polarize; take an extreme stand based on scant evidence, and then pit the two "sides" against each other. It makes for great television but it is lousy for human relations. Lots of blood and gore with little substance. Dialogue is so rare. KS understands, I believe, that a good debater takes both sides of the argument in their own mind, pits the two together, and finds weaknesses in both arguments. Once trained in this technique, nothing in life will seem so certain any more. It generates a sort of intellectual humility.
I am greedy for opportunities for dialogue, where people with different views listen to each other, feed off each other, and generate new ideas. In the middle of this it takes great courage to admit to a weakness in one's own argument. But just think of the possibilities when we do!
Still Thinking, my rational side says there is no evidence of an afterlife. My belief in God gives me a silent partner to my dreams. I talk through where my future may lead, and I listen to the still, small voice. I'm not talking about routine decisions, like what flavour of ice-cream to pick or what I might wear this morning. But there are times when I feel destiny calling. From the rationalist point of view, you might call it a useful metaphor for an internal process.
Elephant, as fun as it might be to generate a personal god based on the results of this discussion, I'll pass. LOL. Much of my internal struggle is coming out in the thread, however.