I believe one Hounder has an agenda. I have been to 3 meetings thus far. 2 meetings with 2 Elders present, then a 3rd with 2 Elders and 2 more brothers persent who were somewhat involved. So hasn't there been three meetings with a total of 8 witnesses? The " 2 witness " rule has been followed 4 times! So this will be the 4th meeting. I am so curious though..... this is a tough one.
SLANDER!!!
by DATA-DOG 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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mind blown
PLEASE LISTEN TO EE!! Maike an excuse not to go and if they want a raincheck on the spot.....tell them you can't commit you have a sudden illness in the family or family emergency!
I promise two questions will be asked and you will be DFed. Unless you go and lie like it's nobodys business! YOU WILL NOT REASON WITH ANYONE. THERE'S ONLY ONE AGENDA AND THAT'S ALL THEY CARE ABOUT.......THE BOTTOM LINE OF THOSE TWO QUESTIONS AND THERE'S NO WIGGLE ROOM.
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00DAD
Data-Dog, so do you want to:
A) show them that you fear no man, and will not be loyal to men over God's word, or
B) not escalate this to a judicial process
Similarly, do you want to:
A) be honest and draw a line in the sand, or
B) not attack anyone, or give that impression
You really can't have it both ways.
It's not like a JW Judicial Committee is fair or interested in helping you.
I think ElderElite's advice is best.
00DAD
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DATA-DOG
00DAD,
Well, I have a lot to think about tonight. Not to beat a dead horse, but does it matter that it is not judicial yet? Or do you think that they are trying to get something to justify making it judicial? So you are saying don't give them any more info than I already have because even if it is factual it really won't change anything. Also, I could very well escalate the issue. So, it is best to be a no show, or just tell them what they want to hear.
Mind Blown,
Are you still in? Have you experienced something similar?
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Fernando
Pharisees with an agenda are often not upfront that it is judicial. You just somehow find yourself in front of three of them and df'd soon thereafter.
They have agendas - not morals, qualms or integrity. That was Ray Franz' experience. It was the experience of possibly millions more over the decades of WBTS existence.
It was my personal experience too. However I managed to see what was coming and sidestepped so as to be able to walk out on my own terms. This was a much needed blessing in a very trying situation. It prevented them from discrediting me to the extent they had hoped.
They were also "clear" about their intent to destroy our family, and and then blame us for it.
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whoosier
Data_Dog - it's always judicial. They just need 2 to make it official. The standard rules of law do NOT apply in these procedings.
If an Elder asks to speak to you privately, it will almost always lead to Judicial.
Cynicism goes against what we (witnesses) are trained regarding the Elders. You need to be cynical/realistic regarding what COULD happen next.
No one will protect you, except you.
You have support here. Trust it.
Whoosier
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whoosier
If we were talking face to face and I said: "You vermin without soul riddled with caustic callous untruth, latent with whole lies and unworthy of salvation.", that would be slander.
If I had written it down, that would be libel.
Nothing I said above is true. Unless a lawer says it is so.
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mind blown
Since I was 5 yo while my family was in and out and back in and some now out. I was baptized in 83 when s**t hit fan with with the homosexual and child molester GB members as well as Franz. The only rumor which I continued to hear about Ray was DF'd for apostasy which in fact was an untruth.
And yes, I have experience with JC. I was Df'd while I was OUT of the org. mind you. While out would smoke cigs once in a while and it turns out someone saw me and went to the elders. They sent me a letter to come in for a meeting. I had no idea why. When I arrived that's how i knew it was because someone snitching me off. Ha... I was inactive for about a year. Anyway, all they wanted from me was to repent. I told them I wasn't going to repent just on priciple. I wasn't going to be muscled into it. I should do it from my heart, not at a drop of a dime when they want me to. I had 5 elders for little ol me. They read me scriptures, told me I was going to be distroyed. I stuck to my guns. They told me they were going to let me know in a few days what they decided and was soon DF'd by another letter. The elders will not budge. They are trained not to. All they care about is repentence or those two questions.
Don't fool yourself ...many here know the story of Dale and Bette Baker who were DF'd for Apostasy..see how well they faired by tyring to reason with elders....
http://www.jehovahswitnessbooks.com/2010/03/judicial-committee-meeting-of-dale.html
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The Searcher
@ DATADOG
For what it's worth, here's a personal experience which I feel has a clear piece of advice in it;
A number of years ago when I was a 'rookie' publisher, I was picked by the visiting C.O. to work with him on the ministry one morning. A very austere and generally unapproachable type.
Anyway, as we were walking between houses, I asked him about a Scripture which I had come across, but couldn't grasp the 'understanding' of. So I said, "Can you tell me how Romans 6:7 proves that our own death wipes our sins out?".
He immediately gave me a stony look and said, "Why don't you write to the Branch?". So much for travelling 'shepherds', I thought. Why didn't he answer my question?
Quite simply and logically, (I later reasoned) if he had told me what he thought about it, (the opposite of the Orgs view) he and his elderly wife would be out of house & home, no car, no income, and NO friends!! Life ended!!!
Moral of the story? Keep your mouth shut - tell them nothing!!
Lovingly thank the elders for their interest in you, but make it clear that your faith in God's Word, your love for Jehovah and his son's sacrifice, are deeply held in your heart and mind, that you sincerely believe that each of us will render an account to God when the time comes, and that you feel sure they would not want to discuss with others in the congregation their personal thoughts on the matter. End of discussion!!
If they persist, then they are DEFINITELY out to get you!
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caliber
I was through a situation once ... where a C. O. told me "there is no need to slander the Elders "
I told him what I said was true ... showed the dictionary definition ...
slan·der
Noun: The action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.However he wasn't questioning the falseness of my statement but rather "slander' in the sense that one is
expected discuss discontent about elders directly to them and not to other members of the congregation . He used the wordslander when really it should have been "creating dissent" ( at least in his mind ) (not to question the authority of the Elder's in any way)
dis·sent
to differ in sentiment or opinion, especially from the majority; withhold assent; disagree (often followed by from ): Two of the justices dissented from the majority decision.
to disagree with the methods, goals, etc., of a political party or government; take an opposing view.I believe that they called this slander because they have the final word as to what is considered truth or right ... "the judges decision is final " Anything that underminds the authority of others for the elders they want to brand as "slander ' .. to harm their reputation
(bring to disgrace , discredit , defame )