Does God Command Christians To Go From Door To Door Preaching The Gospel?

by Bangalore 144 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  NewChapter

  NC, the case you cited above involved someone listening to a person who listened to a voice... and that is not what i have ever said to do. Our faith should be in Christ... and not in another person. You can take what someone else says with a grain of salt, but I would never endorse staking your life on something someone else says... NOR would I stake my own life on something someone else says.

  Would you stake your life on what your own voice says? And if not, does that mean you don't have full faith in where your voice comes from? And if yes--well I would intervene as much as possible.

  As to what would I have a person do? People will do as they wish. I would have others, like me, here to challenge and call out this destructive encouragement, and there will always be mental health specialists to help clean up the mess too. I'm pretty sure people have died because of voices they personally heard. Maybe the first five messages were innocuous, and so people like you were all supportive. Love your neighbor, have more faith and such. But then the sixth message could have come in with some very dangerous advice---but hey---the first five were well supported and warmly received---now this is the real test.

  So I will just continue to challenge it when I see it. If I feel someone is being personally hurt by this nonsense, I will reach out the best I can---like I had to do with my friend when Satan started bothering her because hearing voices was approved in her group of believers, and nobody was there to help her realize how sick she really was.

  So here is a thought. Since you have said that it is wrong to make decisions based on what someone else hears, then I assume these messages are meant to be private---between you and the lord. They aren't meant to be advice for you to pass on, or else you would have said a person should listen to what the voice says to someone else. Perhaps that is how it should be then. Keep it to yourself. Why share? The lord is not speaking to me or others through YOU, so why do you share? I shouldn't base any decision on anything that you claim to have heard, so I really don't need to know what it is you heard.
• 

  tec

  OK...So you DON'T want people to believe you...

  I don't want people to take my word for it and follow me.

  I stated above what i want or hope for.

  and you DON'T keep using the idea that Jesus speaks to you to add authority to what you say.

  I do not.

  If I say that i received something from Him, it is because I cannot and will not lie and take credit for something that is not mine. That I am not smart enough or wise enough to have come up with on my own. That would make me a cheat and a liar.

  And you have NEVER said or quoted the bible about lying scribes.

  I have done both.

  I have never said that everything in there is a lie. Only that one should test it all... against Christ and against love, and also reason. (test in spirit if you can, or at the very least, take his words that are written over anything else written)

  And you DON'T know which are lies and which aren't, because Jesus has NEVER clarified anything in the bible for you.

  He has clarified some things that are true, and he has shown me something from the bible that supports something that he has told me... when I have needed to 'see' it, rather than simply putting faith in Him and the understanding he shared with me.

  He has never taken me through it and said... lie, truth, lie, lie, truth, lie...

  There is no need for that if you simply follow Him and what HE says... because that is always truth.

  Peace,

  tammy (off to watch a movie now)
• 

  still thinking

  I don't want people to take my word for it and follow me.

  I said nothing about 'following' you.

  If I say that i received something from Him, it is because I cannot and will not lie and take credit for something that is not mine. That I am not smart enough or wise enough to have come up with on my own. That would make me a cheat and a liar.

  False humility is not a vitue. And all you are doing here is supporting yourself in your claim that you hear voices. This is evidence to no one but yourself.

  I have never said that everything in there is a lie. Only that one should test it all... against Christ and against love, and also reason.

  I never said you said everything is a lie. But you keep pointing out there are a lot of lies....and clearly, you do not KNOW which are and which aren't. But you happily quote it because you have tested it against YOUR personal idea of what christ should be....so you KNOW. And speak with authority about it.

  He has clarified some things that are true, and he has shown me something from the bible that supports something that he has told me... when I have needed to 'see' it, rather than simply putting faith in Him and the understanding he shared with me.

  So YOU say, based on a voice you have in your head. Shame he doesn't have any other tools to use than the bible which is unreliable because it is full of lies...but I guess this god in your head likes to support his claims with a book that cannot be trusted.

  Anyway...I have had enough of this thread and reading your self proclamations. So I will wish you adieu. And happy voice hearing.
• 

  tec

  Would you stake your life on what your own voice says?

  My 'own' voice, no... I mean unless I was taking a stand for something that I felt strongly for.

  My Lord's voice... I think so, as long as i knew that it was Him. (I say I think so, because that is a pretty vague question, AND, no one really knows what they would do in a situation unless or until they have been in it) Would he tell me that i must stake my life on something... no. Everyone always has a choice, and God is merciful; not exacting.

  And if not, does that mean you don't have full faith in where your voice comes from?

  Now see... here... this seems to negate the concern that you say you feel. Why would you want to intervene to stop me (or someone like me) from staking my life on something you think is false... and then 'poke' me (or someone like me) with 'well, does that mean you don't have full faith in where your voice comes from?'

  In any case, you have my answer above.

  And if yes--well I would intervene as much as possible.

  Okay.

  I might too. Guess it depends on what you mean.

  As to what would I have a person do? People will do as they wish.

  That is not an answer. I asked what you would have a person of faith, who hears their lord, do?

  I would have others, like me, here to challenge and call out this destructive encouragement, and there will always be mental health specialists to help clean up the mess too. I'm pretty sure people have died because of voices they personally heard. Maybe the first five messages were innocuous, and so people like you were all supportive. Love your neighbor, have more faith and such. But then the sixth message could have come in with some very dangerous advice---but hey---the first five were well supported and warmly received---now this is the real test.

  No matter how many 'messages' if a voice is telling someone to harm themselves, or others, it is NOT the voice of Christ. If it comes from some place OTHER than love, it is not the voice of Christ. Do NOT listen to it.

  As I said, this is what i would (and have) told others, including going to a doctor.

  So I will just continue to challenge it when I see it. If I feel someone is being personally hurt by this nonsense, I will reach out the best I can---like I had to do with my friend when Satan started bothering her because hearing voices was approved in her group of believers, and nobody was there to help her realize how sick she really was.

  Good then that you helped your friend.

  So here is a thought. Since you have said that it is wrong to make decisions based on what someone else hears, then I assume these messages are meant to be private---between you and the lord.

  Why?

  If you learn something from someone who has not told you that you cannot tell anyone else... then why can't you share what you learned? That does not stop anyone from going and finding out for themselves, or stating... yeah, that's nice and all, but I just don't see it.

  They aren't meant to be advice for you to pass on, or else you would have said a person should listen to what the voice says to someone else.

  My Lord has never given me advice for someone else.

  So... agreed.

  Perhaps that is how it should be then. Keep it to yourself. Why share?

  Because there are some who would like to hear. Because there are some who are built up, or some who take comfort in knowing that others hear the same things?

  The lord is not speaking to me or others through YOU, so why do you share? I shouldn't base any decision on anything that you claim to have heard, so I really don't need to know what it is you heard.

  Then don't listen. (or rather don't read)

  I share because I learned something that helped me see more clearly, and I simply want to share that with others, and perhaps that will help them too. Or perhaps the 'perspective' will give someone something new to think about, so that they might be free of the baggage that religion carries, or if they are doing their own search, it might at least give them something new to factor into their search.

  Sometimes I share because someone has said something that is false. So again, another perspective for those who are listening/reading to consider along their search and path.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  tec

  I said nothing about 'following' you.

  Good.

  False humility is not a vitue. And all you are doing here is supporting yourself in your claim that you hear voices. This is evidence to no one but yourself.

  Neither is judging another person and their intentions.

  Which is all you are doing.

  You claim that i am showing false humility. I am just telling the truth.

  Believe me, I have plenty of pride; too much, and it is most definitely NOT a virtue.

  But I don't say something came from Christ to give myself and my words authority.

  But it is wrong to take credit for something that is not mine. I'd rather deal with your accusations, than to do that to Him.

  (And i don't hear voices.)

  I never said you said everything is a lie. But you keep pointing out there are a lot of lies....

  I never even said that.

  and clearly, you do not KNOW which are and which aren't.

  You're right. I know only Christ. If something is in conflict with Him, that makes it in conflict with Truth. So then... not the truth. (or I or someone else does/did not understand)

  But you happily quote it because you have tested it against YOUR personal idea of what christ should be....so you KNOW. And speak with authority about it.

  No, I happily quote it when someone is also using the bible to prove some other point... or when someone needs to see it. Sometimes that person is also me. I hear something, and have to check on it to SEE it (lack of faith in something HE has given me) Thankfully, He is patient.

  I also don't dismiss it. If He is patient with me, then certainly He is patient with everyone else who needs to see, if only to help in the beginning.

  So YOU say, based on a voice you have in your head. Shame he doesn't have any other tools to use than the bible which is unreliable because it is full of lies...but I guess this god in your head likes to support his claims with a book that cannot be trusted.

  He is spirit, and communicates via spirit. We are also spirit... but many of us don't trust that and don't know even know how to do so for that matter... so WE need to see something. We get what WE demand. Just like Israel got a king when they demanded one, even though it was not what God wanted for them (and warned them against) Just like Israel wanted Moses to intercede, rather than to hear from God themselves. They wanted a mediator in Moses, and so they got one, and whatever comes with that.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  NewChapter

  My Lord's voice... I think so, as long as i knew that it was Him.

  Well that's . . . disturbing. I guess this is much worse than I had thought.

  As to what I would have people do? I don't actually tell people what to do. They will do as they wish, and I will challenge them. Not sure how you want me to answer that question. Did you think I would put them in jail or something? I believe in freedom of speech and religion, but don't believe that this crazy talk should go unchallenged. And now I've asked you what you would do if your lord told you to risk your life, and you said you'd listen to that voice. So it's of much more concern now. I am more convinced than ever that these ideas need to be challenged.

  And then right after saying that, you turned around and said that god would never ask such a thing of you. That's a pretty unstable answer. You answered it twice in one paragraph with opposite answers. And this is another problem I see with the voice hearers. They tend to get worse as time goes on and they withdraw into themselves and listen to this voice.
• 

  tec

  And now I've asked you what you would do if your lord told you to risk your life,

  You said 'stake' my life. That to me means taking a stand for something. (to me that would be the truth, or helping someone, or for love)

  So when you say risk my life... what do you mean? Like if He told me to go do something to help someone else and that put my life at risk? Because we should do something like that. Or something else?

  As to what I would have people do? I don't actually tell people what to do

  You are telling me that what I am doing is irresponsible and dangerous... so I ask you what you would have me do instead. Would you have me lie, because there are some mentally unstable people who might feed off something I said and add it to their delusion?

  And then right after saying that, you turned around and said God would never ask such a thing of you.

  No, I said he would never tell me that I must do such a thing. But again, we seem to be operating on a different meaning of 'stake' or 'risk'. Why don't you give me an example of what you mean?

  You answered it twice in one paragraph with opposite answers

  What opposite answers?

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  NewChapter

  Nevermind Tec. I'm not up for word games tonight. It's all delusion anyway. You have a right to be irresponsible---that's what I'm saying. Hopefully responsible people with a hold on reality will be there to challenge. I used to think that fundies were the worst and most dangerous. I retract that. It's people that make their own rules, have no compass, and there is no way to predict what you'll come up with next. This voice thing has pretty much blown me away. It has been used to manipulate many people with disastrous results.
• 

  tec

  have no compass

  Christ. Love. Only and always.

  (which is not to say that i don't ever mess up and act out of anger or something, because I do... but that is wrong, and i know it as I am doing it, and anger is one of those 'noises' that drown Christ out, so that i cannot and am not following him when I am following anger. Hopefully i will always apologize and attempt to set things right, and own up to it, when I do so)

  I am not playing word games, NC. I do not know what you mean, and I think its important to know exactly what you mean when responding... else my words be misunderstood and perhaps held against me.

  But I am fine with letting things be and moving on as well.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  mP

  Is this the same Christ that was too blind to speak out against slavery, but instead told slaves to cop it sweet and not run away ? Yup sounds like a real champion of the poor and weak.