Not Sure What I Believe In Anymore (page 6)

rip van winkle

Still Thinking, Found Sheep and NewChapter - I'm sorry that you feel my words were directed towards you or insulting. I apologize. I was making general statements and had no one in particular in mind when I wrote "The athiests will tell you needing or creating a god is being weak-minded" ( I have stated elsewhere that I'm not fluent in "General"- I barely master english- insert chuckle here?)

Please keep in mind that I was not raised in any religion and I had a life prior to being a JW. Now, do you consider me a Christian? Maybe you do. Then that would also be a generalization because I have NO idea. Yes, I believe there is a Creator. But, now, I have to assess for myself what is True and what is False. And is the Creator a Jehovah, a Jesus, or Spinoza's assesment of god, etc. And another question for myself - was I following Christ? I think maybe I've been more of a Watchtowerist than Xian.

I'm not out of the org. I haven't given months or years to research anything than the false teachings of the WT. TTATT and awakening was fairly recent compared to the years I have been a JW. I've been thinking a lot and reading a lot. I consider learning to be a valuable lesson in life.(LOL) ( Does anyone understand me?)

Sol, it wasn't what you said, but I thank you for wanting to clarify on my behalf.

Leslie, I wasn't a born-in so I never had preconceived notions about athiests- even as a JW. Don't worry about it. It's all good.

~~~~

Most, if not all of the people that I "talk" with on this site are agnostic or athiest and I like all of you! (BTW- There's no accounting for my taste-LOL) And I have appreciated hearing all p.o.v.'s whether I agree with them or not. I wouldn't continue to be here if I was offended by any of your opinions. I'm here to commiserate, heal and to learn.

I would like to say that no one challenged my statement to Leslie that opened with "The Christians here will tell you to pray and let Christ come into your heart." and no one challenged my statement that ended with "And I can't tell you ANTHING until I figure things out."(Please don't- I'm not asking for a new challenge!)

So guys, two out of the three statements I made in my remarks to Leslie were OK? Yes? So, then can I conclude that 2 out of 3 ain't bad?!!!

Vanderhoven7

Hi Escapee,

One of the serious problems with the religion of JWs is that it is belief, rather than faith based.

So it's no wonder that once their belief system collapses, many ex-JWs end up agnostics and atheists

Faith is a derivative of revelation. It is entirely the work of the Holy Spirit.

Either Jesus reveals Himself to you by His Spirit ...or you are left with doubt and unbelief.

Saving revelation/faith is always personal, always centered in Jesus and His work/forgiveness/acceptance/love and provision for you.

Btw, you can also hang out and look for answers at:

http://xjwsforchrist.madmooseforum.com/

still thinking

Still Thinking, Found Sheep and NewChapter - I'm sorry that you feel my words were directed towards you or insulting.

I was not insulted, but thank you anyway.

My concern was that it was painting a picture of what atheism is, a picture that was incorrect. No one can state what all atheist believe or think because it is not a belief system. Not believing in a god is simply that. It does not detemine our opinion of others. That is an individual thing based on other evidence.

I can relate to nuthouse because that is EXACTLTY where I was a few months ago. I recall vividly how painful it was to not know what I felt anymore. Or what I believed. I felt very lost.

I would never want to tell anyone in this situation what to believe. I save those types of discussions for people who try to tell me what to believe or are convinced of their beliefs. Even then, it is my opinion verses theirs. And often a believer is more convinced they are right than I am because they 'know' the truth...or are convinced that something supernatural is happening, without any evidence of this I might add. But it doesn't stop them from sharing this as though it is a fact we just don't understand yet.

still thinking

One of the serious problems with the religion of JWs is that it is belief, rather than faith based.

So it's no wonder that once their belief system collapses, many ex-JWs end up agnostics and atheists

More sweeping comments about why atheists become atheists. I'm sure you just don't understand why someone becomes an atheist. But that is no excuse for this judgement. You are assuming that it is just because the JW religion is wrong that people loose faith. People loose faith for a number of reasons. It could be because they inform themselves, it could be because they educate themselves, it could be because they find no evidence for belief. It could be that they admit to themselves they could be wrong about this whole god thing and maybe its not true. Being an ex jw clearly isn't enough or every ex Jw would be an atheist.

It also makes the assumption that all JW's have no faith. I would say many have a lot of faith in their god. You have to have faith to believe in a god, not matter what religion it is...I would suggest that maybe blind faith just wasn't enough without any evidence for some people to continue to have faith.

rip van winkle

Still thinking- I can also relate to Leslie. I just don't have a lot of answers to her introspective questions, as I am also trying to determine those things for myself.

And ST, it was not my intention to offend you or anyone else. I was not attempting to paint a picture of what an athiest is or is not, just as I cannot paint a picture of what a Xian is or is not. Haven't we all found that it all depends on who you ask? Everyone's criteria is different So, I do appreciate your thoughts, ST, and I will try to be more cautious and thoughtful with my words. Again, my apologies to you.

still thinking

No worries RVW...keep hold of those comments for our next debate...LOL

rip van winkle

Still T, why so formal? Call me "Rip"

NewChapter

RIP! You will be flogged! Really, and I mean this so honestly, I did NOT take offense. But I did use it as an opportunity to expound on a common idea that really doesn't reconcile with the facts at hand. Sometimes we just say things cuz we don't really think about it, but others say those things after much thought. So I used your comment to address it. I am familiar with your posting history, and I got it. So HONESTLY

Now a few posts above is a silly comment about why some ex-JW's become atheists. It is completely off base, and shows a deep misunderstanding of how the atheist mind works. They seem to be convinced that if we just understood their better god, we would change our mind. That we have only rejected belief in the JW god, and have made the mistake of believing that the JW god was an accurate portrayal of the biblical god. This is simply not true. In fact, wouldn't that be rather hasty and reactionary? In which case, it suggests anger at this god, but atheists don't have anger an any gods. None at all. If we did, we would not be atheists!

I'm like you, RIP, I was not born in. So I've been introduced to many versions of many gods. It doesn't matter how wonderful they are, I have concluded that they don't exist. It has nothing to do with the WTBTS. In fact, I was perfectly content and not disgruntled at all with my religion. My conclusion was NOT that the WTBTS was not 'the truth' but that gods did not exist.

I find many believers quite stubborn in their beliefs in spite of all evidence to the contrary, so I'm sure that saying these things, writing them, arguing them will not change how they view atheists. They will continue under the misconception that they understand us and what motivates us. But I think that YOU will understand what I am saying and understand that my nonbelief does not come from a place of ignorance, anger or hurt. Emotion plays no role in this.

So there is no misunderstanding, the bulk of this post was directed at the comment above that claimed to know how atheists think. I am not attributing that to you. What I am saying to you is that I really was not offended, but just used the comment as an opportunity to address a common misconception. Afterall, if being weak-minded is a prerequiste to believing, then I would be saying I was weak-minded for the bulk of my life. I wasn't. It is more complicated than that.

rip van winkle

New Chapter, I like the way you SHOUT my name!

Edit to add- NC, would you mind describing the "flogging" you want to give me? Just asking

NOLAW

Better like this than in an illusion.

Not Sure What I Believe In Anymore

Share this