What REALLY Convinced You To Leave/Lose Faith in JWs?

by Recovery 106 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  sabastious

  I do have a fear of nearly going apostate again but that is precisely why Im here. To conquer that fear. I do not.wish to defend the organization at all costs but to simply find out the truth. I want everything I believe in to be called into question and scrutinized. I do not want to leave any stones unturned. I know deep down I.will never regain my joy as a pioneer until I go thru this process. And if, in the end it has been proven that JWs are not Gods people, I can live with that and accept that. Im only interested in the truth about God and everything it entails. So your assessment about me is a little off but somewhat accurate at the same time.

  There is hope for you yet. You can start with retracting your comments about the validity of Candace Conti's case (you used the word "fictitious"), or you could continue to defend them, your choice.

  Okay, let me clear something up. I am not attacking Conti for being a victim of sexual abuse.

  Right, you are saying that it didn't happen and therefore any attack you make will be on a straw man you erected, not a rape victim. Regardless, bringing up past drug abuse like you did here:

  CHAPTER 3: GET A THERAPIST, AND ABUSE HALLUCINATORY DRUGS:
  
  "The next step you need to take is to get a therapist. Instead of putting money in the contribution box, simply save it and use it to pay for your therapist sessions. Tell the therapist everything about you. But never, ever, ever, ever mention the abuse you suffered. That is not something you should tell your therapist. That is just sick and unusual to tell your therapist the most traumatic thing that has ever happened to you. In fact, if you want a court to believe you were truly traumatized and forced to stay silent out of fear from disfellowshipping, please abuse hallucinatory drugs. Mhy favorite is a mix of meth with crack cocaine and a dash of PCP all mixed into one. You need something to cope with your pain. Do not go to your parents or friends. Do not let anyone know what has happened to you. If you would like some assistance in obtaining hallucinatory drugs please google it. You should be at least 11-12 years old reading this book, so I am sure this is something that you can do. If you want to become a millionaire, you have to be determined and serious about these steps. It is the only way -- Conti's way.

  ...was a shameful attack on the Conti family. Now you are just backtracking, which is good. It shows you still have a beating heart. Something I was questioning until now. I'm sorry you almost went apostate, but frankly kids getting raped in secret is a much more pressing affair.

  -Sab
• 

  Emery

  Go by the facts Recovery, eliminate prejudice as much as you possibly can. Try being objective when you read books by Ray Franz. I initially was an apologist also, not on the internet, but at the door or with evangelicals who wanted a debate. I completely understand your position, when indoctrinated I firmly believed I was serving God in the purest way possible. I felt the history presented to me by the WTS had a scriptural foundation and the will of Jah was being accomplished. However, I slowly began noticing that my faith was an ignorant faith. When I first understood that Jesus wasn't my mediator but only to the 144k I began to question the authority of such a claim. When I finally did research on the authority of the Faithful and Discreet Slave, it didn't take very long before my faith in the organization came crumbling down. It takes honesty and integrity from within to examine the facts. Ray Franz was not the reason I left, but his testomony along with the love he displayed in his writings reinforced what I had already discovered.
• 

  shamus100

  Common sense.
• 

  King Solomon

  Sure, I'll play along. I think the question is asked in good faith, and even if the real motives are trolllike, remember that there many be some benefit offered to others, not just OP.

  For me, it was probably the fundamental unfairness of the scenario, which I started questioning at 12. Aside from the whole theodicy issue ("why does God allow bad things to happen?" which I didn't even know had that name, or that the issue had been discussed by theologians for 1,000's of years), I could never could accept the excuses offered about where evil came from, in the first place.

  If God created ALL things in existence, whether angel or human, then God created beings that had the CAPACITY for evil. I also doubted the premise of wiping out all humans who weren't JWs, when I knew people who possessed far-more highly-developed moral values than any JWs I saw, who simply accepted their moral values without questioning. There's a difference between understanding morality and simply following the rules.

  This was even before I was even esp. interested in science, etc, but I went my own way purely on the irreducible and unresolvable moral disconnects in basic JW exchatology, and once I started learning more about how the world actually operates vs what JW's wished it to be (to conform to their limited world view), the beliefs were well past having crumbled, having fallen like Nebuchadnezzar's statue after the feet of clay had been shattered.
• 

  Recovery

  Muddy Waters I do not understand what youre talking about. The purpose of this thread was not to refute why others left JWs. I just wanted to get perspective and make sure no stones were left unturned. Thats for another time and place.

  Another poster accused me of lying and wants me to present information directly from the transcripts. I will do this for sebastious and others who continue to attack me for my Conti thread and this will conclusively prove it once and for all.

  I will be able to use my PCin a few as I am using my mobile to answer to any other posts that warrant it.
• 

  Christ Alone

  Recovery, my heart has softened for you, and I think that you are getting lumped in with other trolls that have been on this site. Elephant is notorious right now. Please try to remember that people that have been on a forum (especially exJW ones) for a long time have seen people that share nothing about their current situation, and just come to preach. I was guilty with this myself when I first joined this forum. I didn't give any story, I preached what I believed, and apparently sounded like others that have been on this site. I had to reevaluate what I was doing, why I was doing it, and decided that I am willing to give my own beliefs, but I need to not shove them down anyone's throats, and also to respect what other's believe and think about these issues.

  I see why others have gotten upset at you, but it was refreshing to hear a little about you, your purpose with the site, and why you ask what you ask. Don't let anyone get you down. I think you should continue to post your opinions and views regardless. They may not be popular, but just talk about what you think and feel. If others cannot be tolerant of you, that is on them.

  I hope you read this, because I'd LOVE for you to post your story. You can be cryptic so no one knows who you are. But it'd be nice to hear a little about your background and where you are now with your beliefs. Even if you are a staunch JW, that's cool. Just share on this site and people will begin to realize that you are a real person with real feelings and real beliefs. You really need to do that because without it people think of you as a mindless bot that is just here to tear people down. I'm not saying that is what you are doing. But that's the impression that some people have gotten. You can see this is true by seeing that people have called you a troll. I don't think you're a troll. And I now see what you're doing. But I'd LOVE to hear your story. Honestly.

  I personally was a little turned off on the thread that you started about discussing Crisis, and then finding out that you had never read it. I immediately thought that you wanted to tear down the book and proclaim it false and lies, without ever reading it.

  But I'm now kinda seeing where you are coming from. You are testing your faith and trying to prove that you have the truth. I respect that. If others don't, then again, it is on them.
• 

  Recovery

  Wow thanks ChristAlone. I will definitely do so. That was definitely eye opening
• 

  krejames

  I guess I can't say I have left the org yet, though I have left mentally. Like others that have posted the process for me is the "pack of cards" effect (I'm still on my journey).

  1. The first thing was accepting that I had been born into the "truth" and was gay, then realising that everything I had read in the literature about homosexuality was, basically, crap. No support for gay "born ins". Most literature experiences related to promiscuous, drug-addicted cross dressers who came into the truth and then were "cured" (i.e. got married and had umpteen kids). I knew from my research that there is not one documented example of scientific proof that anyone has been abole to change from being homosexual to heterosexual - even if they had managed to change their behaviour. Even though the org's attitude softened somewhat more recently (and has now apparently toughened again), I realised that any acknowledgment by the GB that there were gay people being born in the truth, who hadn't chosen a "lifestyle" etc was either never going to happen or is a long way off.

  2. It took a long time for the implications of the above to sink in. Once it did, I realised if the printed material about "gays" was wrong, what else was wrong?

  3. The idea of "shunning" disfellowshipped ones was completely alien to everything I felt morally. Despite the fact I thought the Bible supported it (now I know that's not necessarily the case), I couldn't get my head or my heart around it. Also two of my closest friends fell away from the truth (not difellowshipped) and suddenly everything they did in their lives (one got married to a non-JW and now has three lovely kids) was spoken of by JWs with an edge of suspicion and judgement. I couldn't "not" keep in touch with them. They were my friends whether they were "in the truth" or not.

  4. Despite on the whole having no personal issues or conflicts with elders or others, I had long felt that the normal every day "busy-bodying" just isn't christian. The group of friends I was (am) left with in the "truth", despite being lovely in most ways, talk about their friends' and even their family's welfare in terms of whether they go out on the field service or get to every meeting. This really really annoys me. If I ask after someone I am not asking for a report on their "spirituality". I couldn't careless about that - it's none of my business. I just want to know if they are in good health and happy.

  5. Ray Franz's Crisis of Conscience confirmed to me what I already knew (see 1 and 2 above). I had come across the redefining of "fornication" in the 70s from my research into homosexuality in the literature, but the experience of the woman from South Africa who was disfellowshipped for re-marrying after divorcing her first husband even though he had had anal sex with a woman (which wasn't considered fornication at the time)....How could Jesus be directing this kinds of ridiculousness?

  6. The failed predictions hadn't really been an issue for me - I had always swallowed the org's blurb on that (the "some witnesses were over enthusiastic" argument). But it was the GB's attitude to reporting this stuff - blaming the rank and file witnesses for believing it - that really gets to me.

  7. Researching the "cross". While I totally accepted that veneration of the cross is wrong and unscriptural, I realised there were absolutely no grounds to be dogmatic that Jesus died on a stake and not a cross. Basically no one can be absolutely sure either way.

  8. Realising that much of the "evidence" in the Reasoning book about the Last Days is quoted out of context or completely made up. For instance there is no evidence that the number or seriousness of earthquakes have increased since 1914. I was brought up to belive that the numbe in the last days outnumbered all earthquakes in precending history. This is simply not true.

  That's just for starters...
• 

  krejames

  Oh and I forgot to metnion, more recently, Rutherford's letter to Hitler made my blood run cold and made me realise the JWs had absolutely no grounds to point the finger at the Catholic Church...
• 

  stapler99

  Discussing doctrinal issues with my parents, and when they couldn't address my points they started attacking my motives. As they had attacked the motives before of people we spoke to in the field ministry who wouldn't agree, I realised that this argument was nonsense.