Well if pointing out that my God, respected dictionaries and thesaruses, and simple logic do not equate miracles with magic then so be it.
The Bible-- Full of Errors And Inconsistencies?
by Recovery 114 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Phizzy
I have not had time to read the thread, I should be entertaining Mrs Phizzy right now , it is her (cannot tell you the year, she would kill me) birthday, I am taking her out for a special meal tomorrow night.
But it seems to me Recovery, that you are confusing semantics with real life. Of course a Dictionary will not equate Magic with Miracle, although a thesaurus might well do so, but I haven't checked.
The point is, if anything were truly a Miracle it would not be a conjuring trick, or magic in the commercial sense, it would be a singular event that goes against all experience and against nature.
The problem is that a lot of people in the commercial magic business can make it appear as though a miracle has occurred, and that may well be the case with the incidences mentioned in scripture, if they were not merely from the imagination of the writer and did not occur at all, who can know, at such a remove ?
Sorry to all if this covers what has already been thrashed out.
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King Solomon
Recovery said:
Well if pointing out that my God, respected dictionaries and thesaruses, and simple logic do not equate miracles with magic then so be it.
No, WE get it: we know what JW theology is, and if you haven't gotten the hint, it is overly-simplistic, i.e. you have to ignore historical evidence (including the Bible itself, in Hebrews) that strongly indicate that Moses was trained in Egyptian magic. You'd have to ignore the historical evidence that religion and government weren't separate elements at that time (they were intertwined, with Pharoahs considered as the embodiment of deities), and that magic was thus part-and-parcel of BOTH. Jesus' claim of being part-God wasn't novel or original: that was a common belief in the ancient world long before Jesus was born.
Don't be surprised by anyone daring to challenge JW dogma: uh, that's exactly WHY many people are here, LOL! We're not gullible bobbing heads in the KH that are willing to accept whatever is being spoon-fed, so don't be shocked if we're not willing to sacrifice what we know as TRUTHS if it helps you erase YOUR doubts about JW eschatology.
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Etude
Recovery: Here's one for now:
“and Jacob was the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.” Matthew 1:16
“Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli.” Luke 3:23
In horizontal references between Mathew and Luke, both lineages are attributed to Joseph, not one to him and another to Mary, as some would argue. Suggesting one is the lineage of Mary is a good guess but has no substantiation. Others offer a different explanation to reconcile Joseph’s two apparent fathers: that Heli died childless and Jacob married his widow, begetting Joseph. But that's still just a good guess. That some generations are skipped in the horizontal accounts is not that big an issue. That they diverge quite a bit is a more substantial problem. That they ultimately don’t agree and can’t be easily explained is the real issue.
Finkelstein "Nowhere in the Bible is the earth described as 'spherical.' " Yes it is, even though that doesn't mean that whomever wrote Genesis believed that.
Job 26:10 --
"He has described a circle upon the face of the waters, To where light ends in darkness." NWT
"He has inscribed a circle on the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness." NSV
"He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters At the boundary of light and darkness." NASB
"He has drawn a circle on the waters at the boundary where the day and night come together." KJ 2000
"He hath traced a fixed circle over the waters, unto the confines of light and darkness" Darby BT
Proverbs 8:27 --
"When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep" NWT
"When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep," ESV
"When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep," NASB
"When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he drew a circle upon the face of the depth:" KJ 2000
Isaiah 40:22 --
"There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a ?ne gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell," NWT
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in" NIV
"God sits above the circle of the earth. The people below seem like grasshoppers to him! He spreads out the heavens like a curtain and makes his tent from them." NLT
"It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;" EST
ETC.
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Finkelstein
Well Recovery another thread you started without any of your own discussion or input.
No wonder people call you Troll.
Recovery said ....
Well if pointing out that my God, respected dictionaries and thesauruses, and simple logic do not equate miracles with magic then so be it.
The problem with you Recovery is that you've let the WTS. and the bible help you define what is a miracle and what is magic,
that being if God or Jesus does something with their super natural powers its called a miracle, when others create miracles with their super natural
powers its called evil magic.
In both cases the spiritualism doesn't exist but only in the human imagination.
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Finkelstein
Well Recovery another thread you started without any of your own discussion or input.
No wonder people call you Troll.
Recovery said ....
Well if pointing out that my God, respected dictionaries and thesauruses, and simple logic do not equate miracles with magic then so be it.
The problem with you Recovery is that you've let the WTS. and the bible help you define what is a miracle and what is magic,
that being if God or Jesus does something with their super natural powers its called a miracle, when others create miracles with their super natural
powers its called evil magic.
In both cases spiritualism doesn't exist but only in the human imagination. .... or idiots.
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King Solomon
Etude, a circle is a 2D flat shape; a sphere is a 3D ball-like shape.
And neither circles or spheres have corners (much less 4 corners).
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Etude
King Solomon, right. But you can't have a circle anywhere near a flat surface. So it stands to reason that the reference to the circle meant a sphere because a circle does not have any corners. So, corners must be metaphorical. I use the term "corners of the Earth" even though I know better.
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thetrueone
Yes that right KS since in ancient times people thought the earth was flat, particularly when the bible was written.
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Etude
Actually I found that many cultures in ancient times reasoned that the Earth was "round", especially those advanced enough (the Hindus way back when) to do astral observations. Their observations revealed it to them. The Greeks suspected it as far back as the 6th Century B.C. and established it by the 3rd Century during the Helenistic period.