Apostasy Trial - Part 5 (page 2)

Sauerkraut

When I watch this I feel tremendous relief that I no longer see the Elders as having any authority over men. Most here can sympathize how we used to think we needed to obey them and in a way fear them to keep things, or get things right with God, sometimes at the cost of ones dignity. They need more help than we do.

RayPublisher

@hoser - People keep telling me that I do...but if you see me at some ex-JW meetup PLEASE don't put that assumption to the test!

@clarity - You're gonna make me cry AND blush

@Listener - I didn't intend it to be a cliffhanger but I've been trying not to exceed 45-50 minutes as this thing was so dang long, and when that came up at the 46 minute mark I thought- wow that's a good ending...

As for this brother named Walter, he wasn't an "accuser" per se, he just mentioned to them that he was worried about me. They only had a phone conversation with my long time friend Joe, and then one txt I had sent to his estranged wife saying that 1914 was crap.

@man oh man - It can totally make a person sad to think about these trapped and captive minds, especially since they are for the most part decent people, just stunted by the WT in their thinking ability.

@MrFreeze - I can't believe I got the elders to talk to me for that long either actually.

And yes, I appreciate that many of us don't believe in God/Christ/The Bible the same on here, but it has been awesome to see so how everyone on JWnet and YouTube, et al. are banding together "Against the Watchtower Power"! That's what's gonna make us stronger- not fighting, not chopping down believers OR so-called unbelievers!

@Sauerkraut - Relief is good...very good! And yes they do need help that's a very loving attitude.

undercover

I'm really surprised they sat and listened to you that long (how many total hours was it?) At some point, they should've just said, "We can tell you're not interested in being helped and that you have an agenda against the organization. We're gonna wrap this up right now. We're not interested in any more of your apostate reasoning".

Not saying they would be justified in doing that, just saying that's the standard procedure. The fact that you got through all those topics and kept control of the direction of the meeting, the tone of the meeting, is nothing short of amazing.

Thank you for taking the time to go thru that hell, if for no other reason than to record it and let the world see the inside of a judicial meeting.

I do wonder though, if this makes any impact outside of the ex-JW community, if it will prompt the WTS to change how they go about these meetings. Just have to wait and see, I guess.

BlindersOff1

You can sure see why they are scared to death of recordings of this nonsense . Your doing this will no doubt enbolden

more people to record star chamber tactics that are used. Its only a matter of time now before someone records something

legally actionable andget the Watchtower corp exposed to open court . You did a noble thing that has the potential to

help thousands of real people .

What will be their counter measure. "The holy spirit directed electronic body scanner"

respectful_observer

I do wonder though, if this makes any impact outside of the ex-JW community, if it will prompt the WTS to change how they go about these meetings. Just have to wait and see, I guess.

..........................................................

It'll be like going to the doctor (you're "spiritually sick", right?). They'll start make you strip down to your undies and give you a special robe to wear! That way it'll guaranteed that you're not wearing a wire, carrying a cell phone, etc.

Do they make the statement about recording devices at every JC, or just when apostacy is the charge? I don't ever recall being told anything.

Quendi

bookmark

respectful_observer

Of course, they wouldn't want you to feel awkward being the only one wearing a robe, so they'd do the same...although their robes might be a bit different. I imagine it looking something like this:

tornapart

It's like my husband. A ggod guy, a good elder. Can see lots of things wrong but put in front of him all those doubts, all those wrong things, all those false prophecies... BUT.. it's STILL 'Jehovah's Organisation'........... when will the blinkers come off!!

Muddy Waters

I've been following your posts and story both here but mainly on jwstruggle.

I so admire what you've done and accomplished. I am also amazed by how long this JC lasted and how the "brothers" listened to you for so long. I'm so happy you got to make so many points! Hopefully something you've said will get through to them, or others who will happen upon your posts or site or youtube video.

Am wondering if they listened to you for so long because of their respect for you. It seems like some of them must have known you for years and because you were an elder, this gives you the extra "status" for them to hear you out for so long. To me, this shows they appreciate your qualities as a person, as an educated voice, as a compassionate and intelligent conscience-minded individual.

I wish they would have been able to answer more of your questions and observations, but of course this is impossible for them. All you get is the party line, and evasions and accusations.

They see your friend (your accuser) not as an enemy to you who would bring destruction and devastion upon you (in the form of their pharisaical edicts and judgments) but as a friend who only shows "concern".

You spoke so carefully, not letting them trap you. Good on you!! I felt like cheering at so many parts. I wanted to be in the room with you so I could show them, shake them, make them SEEEEEE!!! -- (but I would have messed up the whole thing, lol...!) You're dealing with dogma, indoctrination, fear.... imposed and imbedded in them through an organization of men. They can't see that "man has dominated man to his injury" and that they should NOT BE "putting their trust in men, to whom no salvation belongs...!!"

JWs use these scriptures and can't even see what it means. There's no getting through this blindness, unless they begin forming their own doubts and questions.

And so many JWs are sincere, they really believe they're serving God the way he wants to be worshipped and served... and you acknowledged that and said you respected that... but yes, what if they're being misled?? What if their leaders (the GB) are imperfect men?? These men claim to have special insight from God.... but.... ha. If that were so, why so many changes in teachings, why so many destroyed families, why so many cover-ups, why such double standards, why why why.....

Also loved the point you made about Christianity and their good works and their printing and distribution of Bibles.... they're taking care of the poor and widowed and orphans.... And how typical and cold-hearted was the elder's response (not surprising)..... that spiritual food is the most important, blah blah blah. You used the Bible and insisted they look at the bible.... loved it. Loved you showing them the scripture in James. And then their weak, lame reply that each individual person is free to do that at any time. Bah! If this were so, why is it not more encouraged??? We're supposed to knock on (mostly empty) houses and be involved in busy-work while stepping over homeless people and walking around people pushing shopping carts of bottles.... And meanwhile we fill out our time-slips and literature placement slips (has anybody noticed how there's NO MENTION on these slips for BIBLES placed??? There's only spaces for the society's books, brochures, RV's, studies....)

Oh yes, there are serious problems in the org. These elders must know this!! I hope they wake up....

sd-7

Well, mine was nearly 5 hours, by my reckoning, in 3 different meetings, but I don't think I touched on even half as many issues as you did, Ray. Then again, mine was bundled with my wife's and our collective fornication charges, so that could explain the longer time. Except they probably only spend 10-15 minutes on the fornication issue. Rather advantageous for the Mrs., she beat those charges quite easily. A few tears, making sure I was firmly under the bus over the doubts, and that was all she wrote... Not that this is about me, of course.

I am also surprised at just how much you were able to throw out there. Wow. Impressive.

--sd-7

Apostasy Trial - Part 5

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