I Want Proof Jesus Even Existed

by Farkel 199 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  sabastious

  To me the evidence is in the Roman's decision to assign and tweak specifically Christianity as it's official religion. With their military might they could have imposed something else, right? They could have used a different religion, or even used secularism. Regardless, Jesus of Nazarene was the strongest demand from the people so they chose that idea to make their own and solidify power. Turns out they made the best choice! Their wicked heart still beats in the RCC.

  Bart Ehrman did a good article on this on the Huggington Post.

  -Sab
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  myelaine

  dear donny...

  you said: "When I read the Bible without any outside influence or commentaries, it is quite clear to me that Jesus and Paul were talking about the kingdom of God coming in their time (1st century"...

  theoretically the kingdom of God is where ever Jesus exists as King. that is why Jesus could say that the kingdom is in your midst when He was standing among His disciples.

  isaiah 60 is speaking of a "place" where the Saviour reigns a "place" called Zion. see also: hebrews 12:22-24...Zion/the church of the firstborn starts with one person believing that Jesus Christ is King and the kingdom grows from there...

  Also your people shall all be righteous; They shall inherit the land forever, the branch of My planting, the work of My hands, that I may be glorified. A little one shall become a thousand, And a small one a strong nation. I, the LORD, will hasten it in its time. isaiah 60:21- 22...and then chapter 61 announces the advent of the Messiah.

  love michelle
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  slimboyfat

  Ehrman did such a poor job of defending the historical Jesus that it really makes me wonder if there is a solid basis at all.
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  sabastious

  Ehrman did such a poor job of defending the historical Jesus that it really makes me wonder if there is a solid basis at all.

  Then why did he end the article with this conclusion:

  Whether we like it or not, Jesus certainly existed.

  -Sab
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  elderelite

  of course he existed! He still Talks to people, for christ sake! Just ask them....
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  slimboyfat

  Because Ehrman believes his own argument?

  Even Ehrman only believes Jesus actually said and did a fraction of what it says in the gospels. If you reach a point where 80%, 90% or more of the gospels is viewed as being accretions, is it really stretch to go a bit further and say that maybe it was all made up? Maybe a preacher called Jesus did exist, or a few preachers called Jesus in fact, but were any of them sufficiently close to the Jesus of the gospels to be identified with that character?
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  Las Malvinas son Argentinas

  Any movement of such significance requires an undisputed leader and founder at one point or another. To assume that there must have been a Jesus (or more accurately, Yeshua) around the time of 1 to 33 AD is no huge leap of faith. Whoever he was, he was a self-styled teacher who advocated reform in Judaism, centred around himself and his teachings. Since he did not have Levite blood nor did he descend from the Aaronic priesthood, this presented an obstacle to his legitimacy. His only way around that within Jewish law was to claim he was the long promised messiah. For my part, I doubt he was born in Bethlehem, and the convoluted reasoning employed by his followers later to explain how a Gallilean couple already in the final stages of pregnancy being present there for some sort of census in the dead of winter 775 metres above sea level raises a few red flags. I see a man who saw himself first as a teacher, then a revolutionary within his birth religion, before finally manufacturing a messiah claim in order to gain momentum in the Jewish diaspora. Otherwise they would have remained an obscure Galillean sect.
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  slimboyfat

  It was Paul that got Christianity off the ground though was it not?
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  Las Malvinas son Argentinas

  Paul was the impetus behind the entire gentile strategy by going limp (no pun intended) on circumcision and the complexities of the Mosaic law. He gave them a gateway into the wider non-Jewish world, but they were already spreading like wildfire throughout the diaspora.
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  Phizzy

  Another book which may shed light on this question is the latest by Geza Vermes, I have not got hold of a copy yet, as I have promised a long time friend I will read some books he has lent me, so I really must do that first.

  His, (Vermes's) book is about the first days of Christianity as far as I can gather.

  As the Emeritus Professor at Oxford of whom it has been said by the Catholic Herald "No one alive since the first Century A.D can claim to know more about Jesus Christ than Geza Vermes" , I would think it is worth a read !