Can You Believe THIS?

by LDH 42 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Sassenach

  take a stand for truth and righteousness before God's time of
  judgment,

  Xandit, what does "take a stand for truth" entail? The term I hear quite frequently where I live is "take the truth". It means to become one of jehovahs' witnesses.

  6. During Jesus' Thousand Year Reign, faithful humans will work to turn the whole earth into a paradise. (Luke 23:43) Also, millions of dead ones will be resurrected to human life on the earth. (Acts 24:15) If they do what God requires of them, they will continue to live on earth forever. If not, they will be destroyed forever.?John 5:28, 29; Revelation 20:11-15.

  7. God's original purpose for the earth will thus succeed. Would you like to share in these future blessings? If so, you need to keep learning about Jehovah and obeying his requirements. Attending meetings at the local Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses will help you to do so.?Isaiah 11:9; Hebrews 10:24, 25.

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  1. To become a friend of God, you must obtain a good knowledge of Bible truth (1 Timothy 2:3, 4), put faith in the things you have learned (Hebrews 11:6), repent of your sins (Acts 17:30, 31), and turn around in your course of life. (Acts 3:19) Then your love for God should move you to dedicate yourself to him. This means that in a personal, private prayer you tell him that you are giving yourself to him to do his will.?Matthew 16:24; 22:37.

  2. After you have made your dedication to God, you should be baptized. (Matthew 28:19, 20) Baptism lets everyone know that you have dedicated yourself to Jehovah. So baptism is only for those who are old enough to make a decision to serve God. When a person is baptized, his whole body should be put under the water momentarily.*?Mark 1:9, 10; Acts 8:36.

  ( http://www.watchtower.org/library/rq/index.htm )

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  Xandit, I think it is very clear from the publications what is expected. Why do you think otherwise? I have read nothing that suggests there is another course for one to take.

  Edited by - Sassenach on 27 January 2001 12:8:23
• 

  RR

  Jeez, Lisa, you're a JW, you should know the answer to that one ... ?

  Actually a few years ago, a JW coouple came to our home and after all was said and done, I asked them point blank, what will happen to me and my family, and she looked at me with out blinking and said, "you will die!"

  "People in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones"

  Edited by - RR on 27 January 2001 12:55:48
• 

  Xandit

  Gozz, very simply, No I do not believe only Jehovah's Witnesses will survive Armageddon and I am not sure if at that point 'names' will mean much at all. This is a question I've asked many Witnesses including Elders, ex-COs, etc. and to this date not one has said that only Witnesses will survive.

  Frency said one thing is said and another is implied. I believe most people see the implication they want to see.
• 

  waiting

  Hey y'all,

  I think part of the problem is not just wording, but also time periods. The WTS takes into their wording - all mankind throughout history. We, living now, tend to think about *living people* being saved. I think a differentiation needs to be made.

  I have never, in my 30 years as a jw, heard from another jw that if a *living person* had had the chance to be witnessed to, did not accept, and then Armageddon was brought by God, that that person would be saved by God. That person had his chance, did not accept, and would be killed by God. We jw's were in the unique work of saving lives!

  Now, if that person was on an island, retarded, mentally ill, something like that - then it would be up to God's discretion. So, in that respect, others (the mentally deficit and totally isolated persons) would have a chance at life if they were good at heart.

  If I didn't believe my life, and *others' currently living lives*, depended on me getting out there on Saturday morn. and Sunday afternoon, at my own expense, using my own little free time, then to be quite honest - I wouldn't have done aforementioned for 30 long years. And I don't think millions of other jw's would either.

  Remember the long quoted statement: "(*living)Lives are at stake in this urgent work never to be repeated." If these *living people* were going to be saved on the value of being good, decent persons, whether believers of Jehovah or not, then why go out in urgent service trying to save their *living lives*?

  What was urgent - and still is in the WT articles? Why urgent if billions are going to be saved because they are good people?

  I believe most witnesses will see the implication they've been taught by more "mature" jw's. They will see death if not a jw.

  waiting

  Edited by - waiting on 27 January 2001 21:36:56
• 

  RedhorseWoman

  There was an interesting comment made along this line on Witnet shortly after John F. Kennedy, Jr. was killed in the plane crash.

  Several of the sisters remarked that they were so happy that he died before Armageddon because he would be resurrected and get a chance at eternal life rather than dying at Armageddon.
• 

  Sassenach

  Xandit, are you going to respond to my questions? According the the watchtower world, what does "take a stand for truth" entail?

  The question at the top was:

  "Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?"

  With a bit of prevarication they responded with:

  "Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God's time of judgment, and they will gain salvation."

  Notice the word "before"? They must take the stand "before" god's time of judgement, not during nor after. I would accept your understanding if the "before" had not been there. So, I ask you once again, what does "taking a stand for truth and righteousness" entail? Not according to you, but according to the writings of the watchtower.

  Could you please answer? It would be much appreciated.

  Edited by - Sassenach on 29 January 2001 8:52:16
• 

  larc

  Xandit is like an archeologist who casually studies a culture, but really never lived it. There are certain things that an outsider doesn't know and can't comprehend until they've lived in a culture. Based on what he has said here, and what he has said about 1975, and about college leads me to believe that Xandit hasn't lived it. I have never known a JW or xJW who shares his views on these issues. I will say that Xandit is quite a comversation starter!
• 

  Sassenach

  Larc, I have never lived in that culture. I would like to consider myself a dispassionate observer, except two close relatives continue to study. I think it's more for entertainment, so I'm not overly concerned.

  I think I can speak as an outsider ("sassenach" is an outsider!), and as one, I cannot fathom how Xandit comes to the conclusions he does. I see him as one who wants to continue to believe, rather than one that is observing. Most casual observers don't know as much as he appears to know.

  That is just my personal reaction. I've been wrong many times before.

  I will say that Xandit is quite a comversation starter!

  He makes me think, that's for certain.

  Edited by - Sassenach on 29 January 2001 10:34:50
• 

  Xandit

  larc, you couldn't be more wrong. I've lived it believe me. I remember when seven fellow pioneers sat around a table and told me I was essentially an apostate because I didn't believe 1975 was of any special significance. Not one of them remembered that conversation two years later. I remember when an elder told me I was a fool for pursuing an education because the system was going to end in a very short time. I told all those people to take a flying leap, nicely of course. It's amazing what you can get by with if you're polite. If you've never met a JW or X JW with views like mine then you've just been hanging around with the wrong people:{)

  Sassenach, I'd have to do some research to give you an accurate answer to your question and right now I don't have the time. Deadlines pressing, people clamoring for my attention and highly skilled assistance, you know how it is. Going to be completely tied up for the next couple of days, maybe this weekend.

  Just read your questions again. I believe you'd have to nail down the definition of 'before,' I suppose if that means immediately before, that's one thing and if it means a while before, that means something else. I wonder how many angeles can dance on the head of a pin.

  If I make someone think that really makes my day. Thanks guys.
• 

  larc

  Hey Xandit,

  Your last post makes sense to me. You did get strong objections to your beliefs, but by being polite you were able to stave off any retrobution (sp?).

  You were lucky if you had some close friends that you could share your reservations with. RHW mentioned her's regarding 1975. I think most of us didn't want to share these with others, because you didn't know who would turn you in. You might recall that JAVA's own wife turned him in for voting on a local school bond issue. Also, you were lucky you had independent ideas early on, which eventually helped you get out. I do think, that the majority of the members are not idependent thinkers and are fearful of those who are. In my own case I assiudsously avoided voicing my disbleifs when I became inactive. My relatives asked why, and I would simply say that I didn't want to discuss it because I didn't want to "stumble them". Actually, I didn't want to incurr their wrath and suddenly face the Elders. I knew the people involved were to close minded to tolerate my ideas. I think this kind of situation is the rule, not the exception. Again, Xandit, I think you were very lucky to have a somewhat better set of circumstances.