Why aren't you an Atheist?

by Bloody Hotdogs! 697 Replies latest jw friends

  • Christ Alone
    Christ Alone

    I mean, if we spit on you and kicked you, that would be doing exactly what Jesus tells you is required for you to experience in order to bear your Cross in his name, right?

    That's ridiculous. Jesus never said to look for that. And I'm talking about your attitude, not some sort of imagined persecution. I'm sorry I'm feisty today, but KS you rub me the wrong way, always have. You insult others constantly that don't agree with you. I've even seen you do it to other atheists! It really shows how happy atheism has made you. I'm happy for you.

    But yeah, the CONSTANT accusations that everyone that believes in God, Christian or otherwise, is delusional shows your attitude about yourself. Or maybe I'm wrong. Maybe your self esteem is so low and you were made to feel unintelligent growing up has caused you to put down others in order to make yourself feel better. That's probably closer to the truth.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW
    Regardless of your answer, fact is there's SO MUCH overwhelming scientific, logical, historical, etc evidence to indicate..KS

    I`ll have to stop you at indicate..I get the same from Believers..

    Without Proof all you have is Faith..LOL!!..

    I've read enough of your posts to read your philosophy, and suspect you ARE acting upon fact-driven beliefs, and that's the point I was trying to make: many people claim to be agnostic simply to avoid the implications of being one of "those" evil atheists, and hide behind the cover of calling themselves agnostic just to avoid stating their knowledge-driven beliefs...KS

    I have absolutely No Evidence that God does,or does not exist..

    In order to argue either side.. I personally would need proof..

    Without Proof..

    I would need Faith to take a side..And..

    Use words like "indicate"..LOL!!..

    .......................... ...OUTLAW

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Try to understand what i said, first. Then we can talk.

    I'm just saying that atheism ISN'T the default.

    REALLY? And have you performed a vulcan mind weld on a newborn to confirm that they are born believing in a God?

    BUZZ!!!! Wrong! We were talking about a PROOF that there is no God. Even intelligent atheists don't believe that there is PROOF that there is no God. They just say that there is no proof that there IS, God. Who was talking about the Judeo/Christian God here?

    Bud, my claim was this:

    YHWH loses any rights to claim to be the Intelligent Designer

    HOWEVER, if God likely WAS scripted by ancient Hebrews as a character, based on older Egyptian ideas, and reflects basic ignorance on human anatomy (supposedly the pinnacle of his creation), then the very existence of God, as depicted in the Bible, is highly questionable. That was the FIRST example: I could provide TONS more.

    I assumed you could make that mental connection on your own, but guess not. Sorry for giving you credit for being able to connect the dots (the post was a bit long, as it was....).

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    That's kind of funny. I just had an involved conversation with a believer that insists that believers are always superior to nonbelievers. Guess it depends on who you talk to. I haven't thrown any insults on this thread, nor have I called anyone delusional. I did call out a logical fallacy, I did call out some ignorance that could be fixed with a little reading, and I did attack ideas. Nothing superior about me---it's available to everyone if they choose to reach for other viewpoints and better understandings of the debates.

    But as usual----immediately----all the atheists insult and hold themselves superior. They sound too sure of themselves when they speak, and some beleivers don't like that. Get over it, and work on a focused argument instead of all these silly assertions. Claiming that communists (yes, communists, they are homogenous and have no variation of ideology) think it best to start with nonbelief, and things turned out badly (yes, it always turns out badly) is proof that god exists is just a strawman argument. We aren't arguing totalitarian regimes, or the difference between those that socialize things democratically, and those that do so through force, we were actually talking about God.

    It is tiring when these discussions become so mucked up with irrelevant details and accusations of superiority complexes. If you have a point, argue it. Sheesh.

  • Christ Alone
    Christ Alone

    NC, I've seen you and others do this numerous times. A claim is made and you say that it's so untrue, it's laughable or silly. Well here's one study, and I can find NUMEROUS others, that show academics are seeing that kids are predisposed to belief in God WITHOUT being taught:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/3512686/Children-are-born-believers-in-God-academic-claims.html

    Children are born believers in God, academic claims

    Children are "born believers" in God and do not simply acquire religious beliefs through indoctrination, according to an academic.

    Children are born believers in God Dr. Barrett: "If we threw a handful on an island and they raised themselves I think they would believe in God." Photo: John Taylor

    By Martin Beckford, Religious Affairs Correspondent

    2:54PM GMT 24 Nov 2008

    Dr Justin Barrett, a senior researcher at the University of Oxford's Centre for Anthropology and Mind, claims that young people have a predisposition to believe in a supreme being because they assume that everything in the world was created with a purpose.

    He says that young children have faith even when they have not been taught about it by family or at school, and argues that even those raised alone on a desert island would come to believe in God.

    "The preponderance of scientific evidence for the past 10 years or so has shown that a lot more seems to be built into the natural development of children's minds than we once thought, including a predisposition to see the natural world as designed and purposeful and that some kind of intelligent being is behind that purpose," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

    "If we threw a handful on an island and they raised themselves I think they would believe in God."

    In a lecture to be given at the University of Cambridge's Faraday Institute on Tuesday, Dr Barrett will cite psychological experiments carried out on children that he says show they instinctively believe that almost everything has been designed with a specific purpose.

    Another experiment on 12-month-old babies suggested that they were surprised by a film in which a rolling ball apparently created a neat stack of blocks from a disordered heap.

    Dr Barrett said there is evidence that even by the age of four, children understand that although some objects are made by humans, the natural world is different.

    He added that this means children are more likely to believe in creationism rather than evolution, despite what they may be told by parents or teachers.

    Dr Barrett claimed anthropologists have found that in some cultures children believe in God even when religious teachings are withheld from them.

    "Children's normally and naturally developing minds make them prone to believe in divine creation and intelligent design. In contrast, evolution is unnatural for human minds; relatively difficult to believe."

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    I've even seen you do it to other atheists! It really shows how happy atheism has made you. I'm happy for you.

    mmm hmmm. Again---exactly what point are you trying to prove with this? Shall we delve into the many ways that Christians disagree with each other? The wars it has led to? The slaughters? You see, you have no point. Plenty of believers are unhappy---shall I make that a point in whether this god exists or not? In fact, people pretty much populate the fully spectrum of emotion, in spite of belief or nonbelief. I suppose if there was a god, we could expect believers to be happier, but they are not. So if you think this is a valid point, apply it both ways. The happiest nations on earth are extremely secular---what does that prove?

  • Christ Alone
    Christ Alone

    I just had an involved conversation with a believer that insists that believers are always superior to nonbelievers.

    Yeah, there are alot of those sorts of people that are believers.

  • Tylinbrando
    Tylinbrando

    Im confused,

    If we don't believe there is a God and we don't believe in the Athiest stance there is no God.....how are we labeled by society. Is that Agnostic? To me agnosticism always left the possibility that the existence of God is a possibility. Isnt that putting faith in the unknown.......sheesh

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou
    Outlaw - Being an Athiest or a Believer requires you to have Faith
    FHN - Faith is involved in both belief and atheism

    With the greatest of respect to two lovely people - and I mean that most sincerely folks - you are DEAD WRONG! Belief requires faith, an absence of belief requires no faith.

    Atheism makes no claims, remember?

    Hughie Green

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Outlaw said:

    I would need Faith to take a side..And.. Use words like "indicate"..LOL!!..

    Uh, just what exactly do you think "indicate" means? Have you not heard of say, an "air-speed indicator"? Aside from the ordinary faith required that it is operating properly (eg as the brake example I gave earlier), do you see any need for faith when using those?

    Definition of indicate:

    1. Point out; show: "dotted lines indicate the margins".

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