Shunning is the big story

by joelbear 76 Replies latest jw friends

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  ros

  I agree with your point, JoelBear. The SHUNNING has always been my biggest issue with the Watchtower religion. It was probably the biggest thing that made me see through "the Lie". I tend to believe that refusal of blood transfusion would be far more a matter of choice if not for the shunning sanction. SHUNNING has been the main point presented in the blood articles published by Dr. Muramoto and Lee Elder as the weapon of cohersion for obedience to this and other abominable prohibitions, even to death, of Jehovah's Witnesses. If not for the SHUNNING, I think many faced with these issues would do the old sin-now-repent-later thing.

  However, although I freely admit I have no insight to all the facts in the slaughter of this family, it seems very suspicious to me as a former JW. There is no indication presented that I can see which suggests the family were still believers of the JW doctrine, and the fact that they moved away from their family secretly and without revealing their whereabouts suggests that the shunning was not their greatest worry. Family members were evidently planning to gain custody of the children. This extremism on the part of relatives suggests that their was great concern for the children's salvation in these "last days" before Armageddon. Some radical JWs firmly believe it is better to die before Armageddon so as to get resurrection for a second chance in the "new Earth" after Armageddon. It's a point to consider that I don't think investigators would think of who are not cognizant of JW beliefs, but one I think is well worth investigating considering the JW mindset.

  The husband of the family may well have gone off his rocker and done this terrible thing. It just seems strange there didn't seem to be any warning symptoms that anyone could recall. There usually are in these cases. Indications seemed to be the opposite.

  If the husband believed salvation was through the Watchtower--which indications are that he did not--but if he did, why not go for reinstatement? Why move far away, secretly, no one knowing where you are? How could they not be "shunned" in that case? No motive; no depression; seemingly happy family, doing well in business, children doing well in school. I'm just more suspicious about this, that's all.

  Ros
  "A religion that teaches lies cannot be true"--The Watchtower, 12/1/91 pg. 7
• 

  avengers

  Shunning is a more loving discipline comapred to death.

  Seems there's lots of LOVE to go around.
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  discuss

  you are parroting the wt stance on disfellowshipping, which is to be expected of someone still under that controled mindset. you do not yet think for yourself, therefore you view the "punishment" as a neccesary tool for you to be able to "come to your senses" give me a break. no one needs to be shunned to decide which path to choose. this "tough love" theory doesnt wash with me.

  How is mav "parroting" anything? He has the option to leave, just
  as everyone else does. I would hope Mav has looked in his bible
  and confirmed if df'ing is there or not. From what he says, it
  sounds like he has. Your "under the controled mindset" doesnt fly if
  he is here on this board, which tells me that there is no "controled mindset"
• 

  Beans

  Check out what the Watchtowers official site has to say about this!
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=23811&site=3
  http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/beliefsfaq.htm
  Do you shun former members?
  Those who simply cease to be involved in the faith are not shunned. In compliance with the Scriptures, however, members can be expelled for serious unchristian conduct, such as stealing, drunkenness, or adultery, if they do not repent and cease such actions. Disfellowshipping does not sever family ties. Disfellowshipped members may continue to attend religious services, and if they wish, they may receive pastoral visits. They are always welcome to return to the faith.—1 Corinthians 5:11-13.

  Beans
• 

  dubla

  discuss-

  How is mav "parroting" anything?

  allow me to explain. mav is parroting because he is still under the mindset that jehovahs witnesses are the only true religion, and therefore their interpretation of the bible is the only right one. as far as disfellowshipping is concerned, jws can show you where it is backed by scripture, and someone of another faith can show you with the bible how it is the most unscriptural practice of all. mav is speaking about disfellowshipping from the point of view the witnesses have provided him with....parroting. understand?

  as a side note, i find it interesting that you show up with only two posts to your name defending mav/yoyo/etc......im not accusing you of being the same person, but it wouldnt surprise me if that was the case, considering mavs history of multiple, multiple, multiple personalities on this forum. of course, you could just be a jw lurker that finally decided to jump into a conversation, and it could be a complete coincidence that you decided to defend a person with a notorious history of deception.

  aa
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  discuss

  allow me to explain. mav is parroting because he is still under the mindset that jehovahs witnesses are the only true religion..

  I would think that Mav again has looked in the Bible to
  see if their is only one true relgion. And yes you are correct
  in stating that someone else from another faith can show you
  other viewpoints from the Bible. But if you believe Mav is
  parrtoing anything it would be more accuarate in stating that
  Mav is parroting the Bible. Again the idea of a "mindset" is very
  deceptive. Are Christians not taught that redemption is only
  found through the blood of Christ? Is this a Christian mindset?

  FYI.. I am not be Mav
• 

  dubla

  dis-

  I would think that Mav again has looked in the Bible to
  see if their is only one true relgion.

  if youre not mav, you sure seem to have a pretty good idea what mav has done or hasnt done in the way of research.......you dont know this guy from adam, maybe he hasnt done independent research at all? maybe he hasnt read any other translations of the bible....maybe he doesnt read the bible.....not all jws read the bible, even many of the so-called "faithful" ones couldnt quote a scripture to save their life. so, if youre not mav, as you say youre not, then i wouldnt speculate so much as to how much bible research hes done. isnt it interesting too, that mav has dissapeared from the conversation suddenly? maybe he got busy doing something else.

  But if you believe Mav is
  parrtoing anything it would be more accuarate in stating that
  Mav is parroting the Bible.

  this is an incorrect statement. ive already shown what mav is "parroting", and what he is "parroting" is the jehovahs witness version of the bible, not the bible in general. cant you see the difference?

  Again the idea of a "mindset" is very
  deceptive.

  its not deceptive at all....it captures the idea of being told what to believe nicely.

  Are Christians not taught that redemption is only
  found through the blood of Christ? Is this a Christian mindset?

  when have i ever defended christians, or any organized religion for that matter? i believe there are many mindsets that can be dangerous to blindly follow, including christian mindsets, yes. maybe if mav tells me about all of his extensive research into other religions and all of the bible translations hes broken down and studied over the years, without the help of any one religions publications......then i might buy into your idea of him simply parroting the bible, and not jws. i highly doubt that is the case, for anyone i know of that has TRULY done these things with an OPEN mind is no longer blindly following the wt.

  aa
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  MavMan

  dubla: I understand what you are saying. You are making sense if viewed by those opposed to the Witnesses. If you want to call it parroting that's fine. I believe I am parroting Jehovah God when I say that discipline has lead me to stop serious sinning. In my case, maybe not in all cases, but in my case being disfellowshipped and alone has helped me. Now instead of relying on the friends, I am relying completely on Jehovah.

  If I were brainwashed, would I spend so much time here. I have learned many things, nothing has convinced me that Witnesses are not Jehovah's organization. At least not yet. I am looking into both sides of the story, the Witnesses and the ex-Witnesses. I am making sure of my beliefs and strengthening by faith.

  I am not the poster "discuss". I made an agreement with Simon that I would only post with one i.d., that's why I gave up "yoyomama". If I were to use another name again, I think Simon would axe me quickly.
• 

  dubla

  mav-

  I am looking into both sides of the story, the Witnesses and the ex-Witnesses. I am making sure of my beliefs and strengthening by faith.

  good, im glad to hear it. i would encourage you to broaden your search past the "ex-witnesses" though. this site is not the end all be all of life outside of the jw org. id search other translations of the bible, historical accounts, dates, other religions, etc, etc.

  I am not the poster "discuss".

  fair enough, and i apologize for making the insinuation more than once then. apparently discuss has been speaking of many things he/she could not possibly know of you, and making sweeping assumptions. it just seemed fishy.

  aa
• 

  MavMan

  i would encourage you to broaden your search past the "ex-witnesses" though. this site is not the end all be all of life outside of the jw org. id search other translations of the bible, historical accounts, dates, other religions, etc, etc.

  I am. I enjoy the translation "New Living Translation". The way it is laid out in English, it's easier to understand. I also compare the scriptures that I look up with the other translations used in "The Bible Gateway" at http://bible.gospelcom.net/

  I have read many things into the historical accounts. Some things I believe are exagerated like Rutherford's drinking. For example, everyday I drink half a glass of merlot before I go to sleep. I also enjoy a cold refreshing beer (specially in the Texas heat). Would this make me a drunkard 50+ years after my death? Well, what I'm saying is that I don't believe all the second, third, fourth hand stories. But at least I do look into it. Regarding dates, well I'm still looking into it. I think bottom line is Bible chronology vs. secular chronology, so then it's a choice of who to believe.

  Regarding the disfellowshipping issue and the shunning part, I do believe what the Bible says regarding it. That might come off as parroting JW doctrine, but to me it is clearly put in the Bible. I know Jehovah wants me to be clean (morally), and I do too because that brings me happiness.