by sabastious 120 Replies latest jw friends
Hey, NewChap; the same kinda "critical thinking" thing happened to me.
And I frickin' hated those stoopid urban legends. Confirmation Bias, indeed.
BTW, I can't find that joke thread about someone else here on JWN asking you out, where you invited me to your other forum.
WTF???
PS: Is your user avatar a pic of the real you? If so, very nice...If not, well, you can keep the virtual rose, anyway.
Yay!!! I was getting sad for sab on a couple of the other threads. I'm glad someone said something nice to him!
NC
This, to me, is like quitting video games because you were let down by a single game.
Sab, this is oversimplifying again. Sure, if you're still interested in video games and think they can be beneficial, buy another game. But if you looked into them, and found they were time consuming, expensive, and not fullfilling----then it wouldn't be a matter of one bad video game, but a failed philosophy so-to-speak.
It's actually not a very good analogy, but I'm trying to work with it cuz you threw it out there.
Vidiot, I'm going to send you a pm.
NewChapter - "Vidiot, I'm going to send you a pm."
Okeedokee.
NewChapter - "As JW's, the GB did have rationale."
I was being facetious.
Like when a really messy coworker comments on the color of his desk, and you reply with subtle (deadpanned) mockery, "you have a desk?"
Unfortunately, there's no "sardonic" emoticon.
I do agree that JW's are scolded for using 'independent' thinking, which is often critical thinking---when turned on THEM. However they have no problem when it is turned outside the org, and in a weird way, they did give me some unexpected skills. For instance, it was always appropriate to question and critically look at all other religions. I also remember a lot of 'counsel' about not taking everything at face value, and asking good questions. Again, it was understood that this 'counsel' would never be used on THEM.
Yes, this would be like a group of lead scientists having students that looked only at the positives about their science, and only the negatives of others. Effectively making their science the best science, but only because they have an army of mind controlled students. Then eventually those students start waking up because it was all really just a silly trick from the start. Things could get out of hand.
So in a way, in that environment, I did manage to hone some critical thinking skills. A favorite thing of mine was to look at those sensational emails people would send warning people that men waited under their cars with knives to slash the tendons in their legs and disable them----or that it was an epidemic that a frantic man would approach a woman at the mall because his baby was sick, and she would toss caution to the wind and run out to help him, where there would be no baby and she would get raped. Or a personal favorite---people were putting syringes full of HIV infected blood on gas nozzles so that when the unexpected customer came along and squeezed the handle, they would get injected with the blood.
This is how the Watchtower views education. They like to have their kids learn to read, which uses government services, but then they use the kid within their closed system and raise it like a slave. That slave learns how to critically think about everything except for the clues that will lead them out of the cult. It's almost like these cults are ran by manically charged people. Like the thrill of kleptomania, there would also be thrill in controlling mass quantities of people and have complete power over them. The more close to the edge your mind control subjects are the bigger the thrill. But they sometimes lose control like with you, NC. They taught you too much critical thinking because you then used it against them.
NOW, the thing that REALLY irritated me about these urban legends, is that they were often forwarded by a JW. I would rip them to pieces. Point out the flaws. Find the wonky stuff and send them back to the sender with my evidence that it was bullshit. There are no stories on the internet that this has happened even once. The letter states a rash of these crimes in California, yet is signed by a Florida deputy---from a department that does not exist. What city? What state? What mall? This is all left unsaid and untraceable.
This makes me wonder if someone atop the Watchtower knows that they perpetuate false stories. Which would be evidence of a hierarchy of secrecy capable of really anything. I have watched a lot of JW Fairy Tale and he is constantly reading the obviously made up stories in past Watchtowers. It's almost like the writers have only a feint pulse of conscience. They are able to tell a story that may have been slightly true, but they have to fill in the large gaps with fiction. It's so telling to me that the new DVD's about Cedar Point lacks the American flags that were actually present at the real life convention. They are totally OK with revising truth to fit their designs. That's dark, very, very dark.
-Sab
The ONLY way I could rationalize the things that happened in the Bible (Abraham willing to sacrifice his son, killing people only because they weren't Isrealites...list goes on and on) was because I was a JW and I believed God to be a God of love and I better not question him. (Which in itself is completely wrong...I mean if he is a God of Love then ANY questioning I have at all...should be ok with him. But that is neither here nor there)
Once the Blinders came off with regard to the TTATT, what did that leave me with? I had been lied to my whole life! If the JWs could change the Bible to fit their beliefs, then why couldn't someone else? It still left all the things that happened in the bible that IMO a 'God of Justice, Love, Wisdom and Power' would never do...
Therefore, it isn't that big a jump from being a JW to then deciding everything is a farce and simply a means for controlling the masses. Is there a God? It takes faith to believe that...and sadly...my faith in God is what that religion has taken away from me. Part of me WANTS to believe...but because of them I don't know if that will ever be possible again.
Does anybody else feel that way?
At this moment I AM a theist. I often wonder why a theist is said to disbelieve in a god or gods. Why are atheists not called anti-theists? or non-theists?
Why call yourselves A-theist? Just wanted to bring that to your attention. (Tongue firmly cheek implanted-LOL)
Don't mind me.
Sab, this is oversimplifying again. Sure, if you're still interested in video games and think they can be beneficial, buy another game. But if you looked into them, and found they were time consuming, expensive, and not fullfilling----then it wouldn't be a matter of one bad video game, but a failed philosophy so-to-speak. It's actually not a very good analogy, but I'm trying to work with it cuz you threw it out there.
Yes, I purposefully simplified. Leaving a hobby behind that brings you enjoyment because of one bad experience is not reasonable. This is just logic because the the vast majority of your experience is good, you just had one REALLY bad experience. Just don't play that game. I am trying to simply explain the human reaction to trauma with analogy. The thing about trauma is that the experincer is the one who defines it, not the external observer. Some people are terrified of even the tiniest spider and another can kiss a tarantula on the lips. If you made some people do that they would experience trauma. The way to get through trauma is by exposure to the trauma, but in a sysmtematic and loving way. You wouldn't throw someone who is scared of spiders into a pit of spiders and expect them to come out cured. It isn't that simple, but the solution most certainly involves spiders at some point. Without true exposure the phobia cannot be surmounted.
-Sab
This is just logic because the the vast majority of your experience is good, you just had one REALLY bad experience
But this is not even close to accurate when describing how most atheists reason. I can understand how you are drawing the connection, but it's a false one. People who are terrified of spiders don't conclude that spiders don't exist. If anything, they are hyper-aware of their existence. We are not afraid of religion or god, because we don't believe that gods exist.
