by sabastious 120 Replies latest jw friends
There is no need to investigate every religion
I don't see it the same way. I think that without investigating every single religion that has ever formed that the idea of "God" cannot be considered fully stuidied and therefore a conclusion cannot be made.
-Sab
Just my opinion, but ex-JW's seem to be predominantly not religious and leaning toward not giving a hoot about whether there is a God, not because of a firm belief but because they wasted enough time on that stuff.
I guess that would make them agnostics.
I don't see it the same way. I think that without investigating every single religion that has ever formed that the idea of "God" cannot be considered fully stuidied and therefore a conclusion cannot be made.
This one first. No, Sab. We make conclusions all the time without investigating every little detail. There will always be someone who says, "but you haven't met MY god yet, therefore you don't know if you like him/her!"
NO. See, if we investigated and found evidence of gods, we would then be compelled to learn about that god, and perhaps that would include investigating many religions. But since we have found NO evidence, for ANY god, no matter how great you think your particular god is, it does not matter. We don't believe it exists.
I've heard it several times from other friends that I have that have left. Almost all of them at one point or another have said, "I always felt that if the Watchtower didn't have the truth, no one did". It makes sense. The WT instills a hatred for all other beliefs. That doesn't go away just because you leave the Watchtower.
I always look for a chance to resurrect this particular horse. Do you suppose that much of this attitude is driven by the fact that JWs really aren't religious or spiritual? By that I simply mean the thing the believe in is that they have figured out the key to the end of the world and that they are better than everyone else.
Most anti-conversion stories with the JWs center on some discovery that, golly, the JWs really aren't morally superior to everyone else. I think that lends some support to my claim.
As for the spirituality thing -- my personal experience growing up JW was that really religious people were mocked by us. Born-again, evangelical, or other charismatic Christian types were really thought to be strange by us JWs. I think that attitude isn't supported by people who are religious themselves.
This one first. No, Sab. We make conclusions all the time without investigating every little detail. There will always be someone who says, "but you haven't met MY god yet, therefore you don't know if you like him/her!"
A person in a remote tribe in South America could use this argument, but they wouldn't use the word "like." They would say that you have not given their God a chance and therefore you cannot conclude that it/he/she does not exist. The thing is until you see what they do and study it, you cannot know. So you are forced to conclude that you don't know, which is the essence of Science is it not? Ideas like God should be of very little consequence to a scientist, unless that scientist is studying God. I look at religion like ancient people looked at the sea. It's a mystery, but lets start working on boats. Lets go fight those dragons!
-Sab
NO. See, if we investigated and found evidence of gods, we would then be compelled to learn about that god, and perhaps that would include investigating many religions. But since we have found NO evidence, for ANY god, no matter how great you think your particular god is, it does not matter. We don't believe it exists.
You cannot know that God doesn't exist because you haven't asked the spiritualist in the South American tribe. And even if you did they have no obligation to tell you the secrets they know. They might, but you'd have to become their friend. Eventually they will find out you believe they most likely are full of crap and they will discount you, keeping you from the information you need.
-Sab
I don't think anger translates into atheism by default, but there seems to be a human tendancy at work. This tendency would explain the angst I see from a lot of atheists.
Angst?
I would suggest that if they don't want to be stereotyped as angry, then maybe they shouldn't react when a believer makes a statement from their perspective.
So when you make a statement from the atheist perspective, we should not try to correct you? Would that be an angry thing to do?
It first should be considered logically and then an opinion should be formed. Impulse seems to be from anger. From where I stand you most certainly reacted to my statement about video games.
Uhm---I addressed it, but in no way reacted in anger. Are you reading my posts in an angry tone of voice? Why are you accusing me of being angry, when I have expressed no anger on this thread? Odd.
What about the other analogy I put right next to it? I made sure there was two so that they could be compared. Instead you jumped to a conclusion that I am stereotyping atheists.
Where did I do that? I said your analogy was not a very good one, but I was trying to work with it.
When I was really trying to depict trauma and the choices we make because of it. Can you not agree that many atheists are probably that because of a bad experience? I am not saying most atheists, but a sizable chunk of them.
No. Perhaps some trauma may have set them on the questioning course, but I don't believe the decision itself comes from trauma.
Also, how am I supposed to know that you aren't one of these angry atheists?
I have no idea what you are talking about, Sab. You seem to be the only angry one on this thread. Why are you trying to twist it around and make me look angry?
Especially when you react to what you percieve as a "snarky comment." I didn't mean it that way, but what if I did? Who cares if I am being snarky? Why even bring it up? Are you trying to make a case? What case would that be?
Hm. Well it did seem snarky, and perhaps I was mistaken. I just point those things out to fight the meme started here that atheists are disrespectful, scornful, and abusive. I was making calm responses to your points, and now you are attacking me. I have no idea why.
There are a lot of mad atheists out there and I am a believer. I might be in a state of frustration dealing with an attack because of an angry atheists.
Nobody has attacked you, Sab. We were discussing some of the ideas you have posted. Nobody attacked you. Calm down. Not one thing has been said against you personally. If you prefer that atheists not respond to your posts, because it really seems to upset you, say so, and I'll ignore you. This really seems to be an over the top reaction to a pretty mild debate. You okay?
NC, I never accused you of anger, I said how do I know you are NOT angry? Do you think you can hide anger because you are on a forum?
-Sab
You cannot know that God doesn't exist because you haven't asked the spiritualist in the South American tribe. And even if you did they have no obligation to tell you the secrets they know. They might, but you'd have to become their friend. Eventually they will find out you believe they most likely are full of crap and they will discount you, keeping you from the information you
Well, okay Sab, if you ever seriously investigate the possiblity that there is no god, you can use this method. I'll respect it. It's not the method I used, but I'm sure different personalities go about things differently. As long as they get the answers they are seeking, I won't fault it.
Hm. Well it did seem snarky, and perhaps I was mistaken.
My point is that how should I know that you are not angry when you make mistakes such as this? Are you looking for an instance to point out the snarkiness? That sounds like someone who is angry. People can be calm and collected and still be angry. It's just the enduring type, not the explosive type.
-Sab
