Image of God - the Bible or Christ?

by tec 132 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  ziddina

  "...If I engaged you harshly, I apologize. It is just that after a time why bother to engage at all. No one changes anyone else's views. I will not apologize for my views just as I believe you should not for your views.

  Based on other current threads, I do believe a small segment of this board has formed a new cult, eerily similar to the old cult. Another value judgment." Band on the Run, page #5, post #6133

  Oooh, VERY true, Band! Especially about the formation of yet another new cult...

  I've been watching certain people succumb to charismatic personalities and their combinations of fantastical interpretations of the concept of 'jesus' - can't say, "of the bible", for most of these people are launching their own flights of fancy unsupported by nearly ANY part of scripture. Then other 'believers' follow right after, without healthy scepticism or intelligent questioning.

  All based, apparently, on how "sweet", "nice", "wonderful" and "spiritual" the charismatic leader appears. But remember this - a poisoner usually doesn't present their dreadful potion in something that tastes BITTER - nooooo, poisoners are most effective if they add their lethal dose to something "sweet" and highly desirable...

  Most believers have to start out by handicapping their critical thinking skills, plus accepting things on "faith" instead of measuring against solid factual data. This makes most believers HIGHLY VULNERABLE to deceivers. Believers tend to be out-of-touch with reality and factual information - so much so as to render them almost laughable...

  If the end results weren't so serious.

  Believers tend to reject reality in favor of surfing a euphoric wave of emotionalism. As a result, religion has ALWAYS attracted con-artists and charlatans; it's so much easier to fool people who display a ready willingness to fool themselves, first.
• 

  Qcmbr

  tec- So you accede that Christ/God's love is conditional - it will carry a record of wrongs unless you repent.

  I am pleased to have pinned one concept of God/Christ down - they are not all knowing. This opens up a theological hole you can drive a universe through but that can be a discussion for another day.

  I am mildly fascinated how you will spin a flood/mass deaths at armageddon etc as loving but try me.

  I'm fairly certain God was in charge of a situation in Eden where he made one sole individual responsible for all death and pain that would follow - this is disgusting (do you really not see why?) and in fact made a situation such that it was impossible for Adam to do anything but partake of the forbidden fruit (I'll explain if you want) . Plus Eden is a made up story - if you are going to reject any of the bible as untrue this really should be exhibit 1. God is utterly responsible for death being introduced by generating the conditions relevant for such a choice to occur. Also the pain and death were applied by God afterwards (i.e. the supposed fruit eating neither killed nor introduced pain , God did that as a curse.)

  Tec - claiming you would be different without Christ is not provable any more than someone claiming that Thor has heavily influenced their inner being. I suspect you would , without Christ, simply accept some other faith based meme because you dont like to take responsibility for yourself and you feel a need to be part of a story that revolves around you and doesn't involve you being a conscious cosmic irrelevance. Your claim that love from christ exceeds your natural capabilities is farcical and easily disproven - atheists love (so love is not unique to a supposed Christ) and former believers love equally (and without strings) to their former selves. If your Christ is the fount of love were true then I , as a former believer, would have been able to see a marked and measurable decrease in love. Didn't happen. Myth busted.
• 

  elderelite

  woe woe woe! Neither Thor, nor any of us as his followers, ever claimed he influances us. In fact, he wants us to just be who we are, kind of like Mr Rodgers but with a kick ass Hammer. Dont demean Thor by using him a conversation about jewish fairytales and the people who pervert those fairy tales with even more of their own.
• 

  Qcmbr

  EE - I know Thor is a tough god , he has survived many things, I suspect he is happy enough being used as a foil for the weakling Christ. If he is unhappy then may he strike me with a thunderbolt. Otherwise I'll assume he's too drunk partying in Valhalla to notice or finds me amusing enough to keep alive for another day.

  :D
• 

  ziddina

  Pfffft!! EE, we ALL know that "thor" rocks!!

  You really didn't have to worry about "his" reputation - we're not dragging HIM - er, "him" - into this!!
• 

  tec

  Ah well, at least some of you have a new cause to fight, lol.

  A funny thing that i have noticed from some on the forum:

  When people of faith agree with one another or receive the same insight... they're forming a cult, or simply giving up reason and following someone because they are unable to think for themselves... therefore there is no God leading them.

  When people of faith disagree with one another, or the insights other believers have shared,... then they are not in unity, and therefore there is no God leading any of them.

  No matter what a believer says or does not say, does or does not do, the conclusion will always be the same.

  When it could simply be that they come to the same insights because they are looking to Christ to see God, disregarding any other source over Him.

  In five years, when there is no cult, no rules, no leaders, no buildings, no doctrines, no money or power grab, etc, etc... perhaps y'all will agree to admit to having made accusations with no basis?

  People gather together with like-minded people. When they do such to the exclusion of all others, and to the fear of all others, then you might have some sort of basis to use a word like 'cult'.

  Until then, all that is showing is your bias.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  ziddina

  "...or simply giving up reason and following someone because they are unable to think for themselves...therefore there is no God leading them..."

  "...When people of faith disagree with one another, or the insights other believers have shared,... then they are not in unity, and therefore there is no God leading any of them..." tec, above; bold & hilite Zid's

  Well, at least you got the last part right...
• 

  Qcmbr

  No matter what a believer says or does not say, does or does not do, the conclusion will always be the same.

  Spot on.

  Until a being called Christ puts in an appearance then he is as likely as Gandalf. The disunity amongst believers is obvious and the small subsets of agreement - raisins amongst the pudding mix - are conspicuous by their specific statements (we believe x - all in favour say aye.) This mini grouping amongst a larger generalised grouping is standard behaviour in all made up organisations, that you don't call your particular band a church is neither here nor there, the JWs don't like the term church either.

  Now if all xians believed exactly the same thing then you might have a more compelling argument but for now it is clear that Christ isn't guiding anything OR is a pretty disinterested onlooker and kinda likes a confused mess.
• 

  tec

  Well, at least you got the last part right...

  Spot on.

  I was spot on about about what your opinions consist of, yes, I know.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  Chariklo

  Band, you wrote

  "I would rather die than worship the God I was raised to believe existed. If YHWH is God, I don't want to worship God. My choice would be Satan. YHWH is loathsome."

  I think the trouble is that the Watchtower inflicts such an appalling view of God onto its followers that to me it isn't surprising at all that you and many others feel like this. I was very fortunate to have a very deep knowledge and understanding of God before the WT did its worst on me. It did, and that enables me to understand where you're coming from, and why you feel about God as you do.m

  That representation of God is not the knowledge of him that Jesus gives us.

  PS

  it wasn't doubt or disbelief that took me into a KH, it was serious problems in the church locally, combined with two very clever but goodheartedly and completely brainwashed JW's.