Human Devolution? Interesting Article...

by AGuest 233 Replies latest jw friends

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    if there IS such EVIDENCE, then that means it is FACT, yes?

    I haven't read your entire post. I DO NOT think we should dismiss the study, unless it is falsified. This is where we differ on how we process information. Evidence is not a fact. It's evidence---a clue if you will----how we read that evidence can be subject to bias.

    Let me explain.

    The cookie jar has been breached! A trail of crumbs leads to the a sleeping toddler. The Evidence would point to the toddler. But is that the fact, or our interpretation of the evidence? We really can't know until we consider all other possiblities and test them. Maybe this is only the work of a mean older sister that made the trail to the sleeping toddler because she wants to get him in trouble. Or maybe the other parent gave the cookie to the toddler, who left the trail of crumbs after having received the cookie by legitimate means.

    This is how we look at the world. We don't look to confirm our bias, but we look to falsify findings. We don't take this study, and then look at areas where some young people may be weak, ignore the astonishing intelligence of other young people, and conclude---yep it's genetic. Because if you are saying this is some kind of evolution (evolution does not work backwards---it simply moves forward and does not turn back) then it would have to be genetic.

    It is appropriate to question findings and to challenge them. It is inappropriate to accept them at face value. More information is needed before we lament that we don't read sun dials anymore. That's the scientific method, and that is what people on this thread have been using---not criticizing you---but criticizing what has been presented. It's critical thinking.

    Nobody here has claimed to be right or wrong, instead an entire conversation was opened and many were bringing ideas to the table. Which is how it works. Rather than be part of that process, you chose to go into victim mode. Nobody said anything mean to you, we just began pulling apart some findings, which is the right thing to do, and you took it personal. Then you put in the comment that it seems people were more intelligent when they were more religious, and that it is science that is making us dumb. I don't know why you want to do that. But it is clear that you don't want to have a discussion on something scientific, because we can't criticize the idea without somehow being malicious in your eyes. That's a shame. It had promised to be a very cool discussion---but not with the drama.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Scientific journals aren't free - so what?

    "Take life's water FREE." Science should have a google product model, capitalism is the worst thing that ever happened to science.

    -Sab

  • cofty
    cofty

    Science is already largely demonized by a majority of the population.

    Only on your side of the pond Sab. In Europe we think science is cool.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Let's see...

    C, I did... and it was an okay word to use. So I used it. 'Cause I like it. 'Cause I type it faster. My thread... my choice. Capiche? Also:

    I think you are bringing your religious mindset to a scientific question.

    I truly don't think so, but I am sure I can't convince you of that, so...

    Scientists argue vehemently about stuff all the time, its how they arrive at truth. Nobody gets huffy because others don't agree.

    I'm not sure that's accurate. Some don't get huffy, some do. As with any other demographic. They certainly do when opposed by non-scientific thinkers. Just as non-scientific thinkers get huffy when opposed by scientific thinkers. I'm somewhere in the middle...

    In religions like yours its all about authority - or at least questionable claims of authority. That doesn't work here.

    I have NO idea what you're talking about, truly. As to religion... "like mine"... or "authority", questionable claims of or otherwise. What ARE you on about here?

    The proposal in your OP may be valid or not but no intelligent person is going to accept it without further investigation and there is just not enough evidence to form an opinion.

    I you think I have a problem with that because??

    You clearly said, "Well, so much for agreeing WITH science, I guess."

    I did, Jer. Not sure what you took from that, though...

    Now you claim "some are simply disagreeing with [you] regardless of what the article is even about." That's a bunch of bullshit. There were excellent comments on page one and up until you made the above comment where people used their own thinking and have read other stuff.

    Really? You think so? I would ask that you go back and re-review page one... BUT I will concede that perhaps I allowed myself to be blinded by a certain response. It was meant to be derisive and so perhaps I let myself keep those "glasses" on when reading into the "tone" of a few other responses, as well. If so, I sincerely apologize. Chalk it up to "shel-shock" (pun intended). It's kind of pre-conditioned into me, right now, especially after what occurred on the last thread I started. Now that you've pointed it out, gimme a minute... and I'll try to get [more control] over that.

    But no, you just dismiss people because they want to disagree with you.

    I didn't dismiss anyone, Jer. I responded to what I understood... and left off to research/ponder what I didn't, before responding, if I even can.

    These people cannot be capable of agreeing with you so they must not be actually forming an informed opinion. Bullshit.

    Well, I have to admit that with some people, I agree with the first part of what you state. Let's go back: the article stated, and MY OP raised the question... as to the EVIDENCE that claimed to be existing. I then ASKED, whether once it is evidence, then it's no longer theory, but fact... right? Now, I openly admit I am NOT an expert on science... and have been engaged in MANY "discussions" where it has been asserted to ME that once there is EVIDENCE... then there is no longer any reason to doubt the validity... because it is a FACT... and "you can't argue with facts." And so, I didn't argue with what was purported to be FACT. Others did... and are doing so. Which, I admitted several times... was confusing to ME.

    Continuing with the "spade is a spade," you are just trying to stir things up so this can be about YOU.

    No, Jer. You and those who commented as you did are trying to do that. I tried... and am still trying... to make it about the assertions in the article about the claims/evidence of the study: that we are getting dumber. Supposedly there is a study that puts forth EVIDENCE that we are getting dumber. And, for reasons I stated, I can agree with that. Some have suggested that there are other factors that CONTRIBUTE to this (family breakdown, dilution/reduction of the intellectual gene pool, less reproduction by educated women, etc.), but I don't see how those things refute that we are getting dumber. They might refute why and how... but not that we ARE.

    I bit. I am sorry I bit. Go back and read their informed or well-thought out opinions and make this about what you posted.

    And I ask that you and others do the same, Jer. Take issue with the article and/or study... and not MY opinion/agreement/disagreement about/with it. As some did... and I replied to their comments and thanked them for them. Oh! Thank YOU, too, dear NC (peace to you, and sorry, I got distracted by some of the comments that came after I had started thanking folks... and was just trying to keep up - my apologies for the oversight).

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • cofty
  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Only on your side of the pond Sab. In Europe we think science is cool.

    Apparently you think the world consists of soley America and Europe. Ever travel to the Middle East? India? China? South America? Africa? Austrailia? These cultures are ripe with people who distrust science in general and that's because scientists don't generally approach people right (I also think people in your area distrust science more than you know). This is because we have a lower social intelligence than we did at the inception of our species which the article in the OP demonstates (and your point about Neanderthals having larger brains and mine about that indicating more social prowess). The invention of the internet and the smart phone are good examples of technologies that will effect our social prowess as a species. The same thing happened with the writing technology thousands of years ago and these technoligies work off of it. Before the advent of writing humanity was more socially intelligent because they had to be in order to survive because primates are group based more than we are tool-based. It's our social structures that create our success because you can be the smartest person on the planet, but to defend yourself you need friends who are willing to die for you and you them.Ancient famous logicians were actually against the writing technology and especially against providing it to the common people because it would dramatically change the whole of society. And even though they were very smart they couldn't completely sell themselves on the idea of the writing technology long term. We can argue that cell phones make life better, but what if we never invented them? Would that just mean that we would have to naturally adapt to our environment instead of developing a tool? What are the pros and cons to both approaches?

    -Sab

  • cofty
    cofty
    Middle East? India? China? South America? Africa? Austrailia? These cultures are ripe with people who distrust science in general - Sab

    What evidence are you basing that on?

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    What evidence are you basing that on?

    I watch as much as I can on youtube for the purposes of studying the anthropology of varying cultures especially in regards to how they view Science and Religion. I also read as much as I can. Based on what I have seen it's glaringly apparent that an anti-Science agenda exists and that it's not subject to a specific vien of society. It seems to permeate the whole planet. I explain this with the air of superiority that scientists often portray. I have noticed that laypeople don't like being talked down to really at all. How could one not sound condescending when trying to impart information onto another who is ignorant of fundamentals that are considered childs play in modern society? The subject is simply going to have to humble themselves to Science and it's representatives. This is not an easy task and the Scientific Community is not winning this battle. The anti-God agenda of many scientists do not help in this cause.

    It's true that Science offers a lot of improvement to third world countries and the world in gerneral, but people are not going to like being bought so to speak. Are we just going to give technology away or is it going to have strings of some sort? There is a lot of room for distrust of Science, Cofty, it's not as far fetched as you seem to think it is. You may have a bias that is nurtured by living within a pro-Science community.

    -Sab

  • cofty
    cofty

    I watch as much as I can on youtube

    So no evidence at all. ok

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    So no evidence at all. ok

    It's almost like you were searching for a specific answer and if you read anything else you would claim "no evidence" which is basically hyperbole. However, your criteria remains transparent to me as you simply want to assert instead of explain as if in a competition. Regardless, studying cultures by watching videos and reading about them is a pretty good plan to develop coherent ideas about them. You also paint my point about science and money perfectly. Because I lack the funds to actually go study these cultures I am forced to work with insufficient tools and methods. You simply ignore these factors and continue to impose an ideology of studying other people's conclusions even though that means having faith in a system of man which goes against my religious values.

    -Sab

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