That's why I like you tec, because you are reasonable.
Atheists and Theists... what do you want from us?
by tec 69 Replies latest jw friends
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cofty
All generalisations cause ill will.
Atheists should not assume all believers are the same and vice-versa.
You have a thread at exjw4christ forum about "angry atheists" that is a repository of ignorant cliches. Invariably when the going gets tough some of those same infantile ideas get trotted out over here.
We are not angry but we do get frustrated at times.
We are not angry at god that's a foolish and ignorant canard.
We are not stuck in Watchtower black-and-white thinking - that's just something you tell each other. As JWs our beliefs were based on an imposed authority. As atheists we generally have carefully reasoned positions based on objective evidence.
No atheist I have ever met thinks they can prove there is no god - that is a straw man that is easy for you to attack.
We are not afraid of death.
Stop telling each other these sort of silly stories that reassure you we are not worth listening to.
I would also like believers to stop hijacking the English language. You speak in metaphors constantly and change the meaning of words at will. It is so pervasive I have to wonder if it suits believers to be misunderstood rather than state their case clearly.
I would like believers to stop abusing science - ask more questions about science and make fewer ill-informed assertions.
There are a few ideas - hope they are helpful.
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tec
Well... thanks Mr.Freeze.
Here is something that might be helpful for you:
Faith is within. It is not something we are given so that we can try and force it upon others. If God and Christ do not force people to believe in or follow them, then what right does someone else have to (try and) do this?
(As well, and you might already know this... but even Paul spoke of those who naturally do the things required by the law, making them a law unto themselves. This one would apply to those who state that people cannot be moral without the bible to guide them. Of course, getting into a verse vs. verse in the bible can be tedious... but it is there, and it makes for a good ending point)
Peace to you,
tammy
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sizemik
Mrs J and cofty . . . fine posts with valid points to be considered.
For the rest of you . . . a real contact sport . . . and the best team in the world at it . . .
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tec
All generalisations cause ill will.
Agreed.
Atheists should not assume all believers are the same and vice-versa.
Agreed.
You have a thread at exjw4christ forum about "angry atheists" that is a repository of ignorant cliches. Invariably when the going gets tough some of those same infantile ideas get trotted out over here.
Please note that over there, some also spoke up against the angry atheist idea (at the very least as a generalization).
We are not angry but we do get frustrated at times.
Is this not a generalization? Some are angry, but I understand that not all, and certainly not even the majority. I think the anger tends to come from those who have been hurt by religion or belief; whatever it is that has hurt them. (not all, not even most, just some)
Anger just happens to be louder than calm.
I take you at your word that you are not angry, Cofty.
We are not angry at god that's a foolish and ignorant canard.
Well of course not, not if you are an atheist... but perhaps during the transition, some were? Some have stated so, so this is why I believe this.
We are not stuck in Watchtower black-and-white thinking - that's just something you tell each other. As JWs our beliefs were based on an imposed authority. As atheists we generally have carefully reasoned positions based on objective evidence.
Do you think this might be a generalization as to both 'groups'?
No atheist I have ever met thinks they can prove there is no god - that is a straw man that is easy for you to attack.
One respected atheist on this forum told me he could. But for the most part, I agree with you here.
We are not afraid of death.
Okay.
Stop telling each other these sort of silly stories that reassure you we are not worth listening to.
Discussions take a lot of turns, and bring up a lot of things to consider. Consider, being the key word.
I do think you are worth listening to, btw. Not on everything, but I am sure the feeling is mutual.
I would also like believers to stop hijacking the English language. You speak in metaphors constantly and change the meaning of words at will. It is so pervasive I have to wonder if it suits believers to be misunderstood rather than state their case clearly.
I understand your frustration and sympathise. But unfortunately there are no words for some things yet - because they are not of the physical and/or scientifically measured world - so metaphor is the best way to describe some things. We should not get frustrated with you though for asking for clarification or not understanding something though. But please consider that it is because this language is limited to what we know of the phsysical world now, and so communication about something that is spiritual... might not always be so precise. Many of us are honestly trying to speak as clearly as we can for you.
But thank you for bringing this up. I will keep it in mind, as to yours and perhaps some others frustrations.
I would like believers to stop abusing science - ask more questions about science and make fewer ill-informed assertions.
Fair point.
There are a few ideas - hope they are helpful.
As do I.
Peace,
tammy
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Hortensia
I'm atheist. I'd like theists to stop preaching and trying to convert others. I'd like a live and let live policy on both sides. Don't preach to me and I won't argue with you.
And I don't like metadiscussion: I said, you said, he said, she said. Enough already.
And I wish theists told funnier stories.
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talesin
All generalisations cause ill will.
(Bold is mine to denote the idiocy of this statement. It is a generalization, and please note, I did not call you an idiot, only your 'statement'. )
We are not angry but we do get frustrated at times.
We are not angry at god that's a foolish and ignorant canard.
We are not stuck in Watchtower black-and-white thinking - that's just something you tell each other. As JWs our beliefs were based on an imposed authority. As atheists we generally have carefully reasoned positions based on objective evidence.
No atheist I have ever met thinks they can prove there is no god - that is a straw man that is easy for you to attack.
We are not afraid of death.
Thank you for speaking for all atheists, and refraining from using generalizations.
t
* not frustrated with believers * klass
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fakesmile
hey tec, athiest want to see and hear ppl. rationalising and using critical thinking before spitting out the phrase "god did it". we want a factual conversation. not superstitious reasoning. EXAMPLE... ill never see my dad again. dont hold that carrot in front of my face if only ill suspend my "god given" reasoning.
peace luv
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Band on the Run
I am a believer. As a former JW, I am fed up with preaching at me. I also don't like that alto I believe, I am treated as an atheist.
I am tired of "believers," a small fraction of believers, not using their minds. Knowledge is
not bad. If I had to choose between your "belief" and "atheism," I will choose atheism. Respect my belief to not share your idea of God. Stop abrogating God.
Tammy, I have nothing against the way you express your belief. You do not impose it on me which gives you credence in my eyes.
Simply put: Don't abrogate God. There is enough God to go around.
