WT Elders school: Look how cute that kindly old elder is! Too bad the Talmud says we have to stone our victim anyway

by sir82 66 Replies latest jw friends

  • sir82
    sir82

    More haphazard thougths on the recently concluded elder school....

    A big chunk of time was spent on a video which traced a judicial case, all the way from the confession to the elders through the decision to disfellowship the guy.

    Here is a very brief synopsis of the video:

    Tearful late-teen or early-20's publisher confesses to 2 elders that he committed fornication with a "worldly girl" who is now preganant and wants to marry him. The elders give him some "homework" to do prior to his judcial committee - read Psalm 51 and an old WT article. Next we see the BOE meet and determine who should be on the committee. One young elder volunteers but is shot down. Another is asked to be on the committee, but he feels he could not be impartial and so declines. They finally pick Brother Old-and-Kindly to join the 2 who heard the confession.

    Next we see the judicial meeting in progress. The young guy gives some vague details about the night in question, but some of his story doesn't add up. Eventually, because he was not a practiced liar, it comes out that this was not a one-night stand 2 weeks ago, as he originally intimated, but it is an ongoing relationship in which the guy has been bonking the girl "3 or 4 times a week" for the past 2 months. Throughout most of the meeting he is either crying or on the verge of tears.

    In the course of the interrogation, it is revealed that the kid did not do his "homework". Also he never mentions his "damaged relationship with Jehovah" until prompted. At the end, he is asked if he has anything else to add, and says "No I've probably said too much already." He is excused from the room.

    The brothers deliberate on his answers, determine he is not "truly repentant", and decide to disfellowship him. They determine how to inform the guy, and the video ends there.

    There was a lot going on in the video that was quite disturbing, but here is the part that really got me:

    At the end, while the 3 elders are deliberating, Brother Old-and-Kindly starts off by saying the guy is just a "messed up kid who made a mistake" (or something similar) and that he ought to be given a chance to work out his problems. However, the other 2 elders spend the next several minutes "adjusting his thinking". They point to various references in the Shepherding book (i.e. the elders manual) which (what a surprise!) addresses exactly the situation they are in.

    There are 3 or 4 efforts made by Brother Old-and-Kindly to soften the other brothers' stance, trying to get them to not DF the guy. But each time, his point is counteracted by a point read directly from the elders manual.

    Finally, Brother Old-and-Kindly acquiesces and agrees the guy should be DF-ed.

    The not-so-subtle message?

    "You elders are too soft and sentimental. You have to view things as Jehovah does. If he killed a guy for picking up sticks on the Sabbath, you ought to be willing to DF a guy who lies in his judicial meeting and isn't 'concerned about his relationship with Jehovah'. Don't be fooled by tears - written direction in the elders manual trumps sentimentality."

    Of course, just to re-emphasize, all of Brother Old-and-Kindly's arguments were counteracted, not with scripture, but with direct references to the Shepherding book.

    On one of my other threads, someone thought that the Society was trying to "soften" a bit on disfellowshipping.

    Nope - the example they picked was one in which they showed the desired outcome: DF the MF'er already.

    And, as has been noted several times on the other threads - "the beatings will continue until morale improves."

  • Londo111
    Londo111

    Wow. Just wow.

  • turtleturtle
    turtleturtle

    god, I wish we could get a copy of these.

  • blondie
    blondie

    It could explain why 20 older 60 plus long-time elders were deleted during one CO visit in this circuit.

    http://www.openbible.info/topics/mercy

    Remember the WTS emphasizes that although a murderer and an adulterer, David was shown mercy by God. He didn't even pick up sticks.

  • hotchocolate
    hotchocolate

    Fan bloody tastic.

    One way this religion will shoot itself in the foot is to become strict to the point of imitating the Scribes and Pharisees.

    Human nature is the same now as it was back then - push men to their limit and they will rebel. Ignorance is the JW's best friend and unfortunately for them, their 'punishment' of disfellowshipping pushes people out into the wide world and forces them to face all the fears they've been taught to believe.

    What a lot of self-important hypocrites. What is it, pride before a fall? They'll end up hoist by their own petard.

    Good post thanks.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    So Bro Old Kindly, gets shut down every time by the Governing Body's Elder Directives Manual.

    The Governing Body are seeming more and more like some very crotchety no mercy tyrants.

    "The beating shall continue until moral improves."

  • happy@last
    happy@last

    A few months after I had faded I bumped into an elder, he said I was missed as all my points I raised in the elders meetings were always backed up by scriptures. I found it an odd comment to make, until I read the above.

  • cobaltcupcake
    cobaltcupcake

    I remember a CA demo where a daughter is asking her father if she can go to a high school dance. Instead of counseling her as her father, he grabs the Watchtower Index and says, "Let's see what we can find in here." They look up a series of articles, and she concludes that she shouldn't go to the dance.

    This demo was cited as an example of how parents should be bringing up their children. Yikes! Usurping parental authority and teaching the kids never to think for themselves but look to the Society's publications.

  • cedars
    cedars

    Well radicalizing the elders follows the theme established by your "black and white" thread, in which the stoning of a man who collects wood on the sabbath is applauded.

    Expect more disfellowshippings and more lives ruined through shunning as a result of this approach.

    Thanks sir82 for keeping us informed of this troubling new direction in which the Society is steering its local management teams... er, I mean "bodies of elders".

    Cedars

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Did they consider his responsibility to the unborn child? Did they ask whether the marriage would take place? Would that have made it better or worse?

    I had dealings with a sister who confessed to a one night stand. It seemed open and shut case for reproof, but she was d/f'd because she was so scared that she did not state her repentence convincingly enough. We helped her appeal and it was successful the other elders never forgave me for going against them ....

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