by snare&racket 69 Replies latest jw friends
"that is not..."
"It is only...."
"We never directly..."
"Our perception of...."
"We do not directly perceiv..."
"The only ones that we do..."
"...and it is a subjective experience."
Jesus Botchtower, I didnt realise you were the expert. You obviously dont need to read any of those textbooks, you seem to have all the data. Damn, I apologise, the evidence you present is so water tight, I shall have to go back to my professor and tell him of the news!
jgnat - are they fossilised footprints in the photo?
Sorry Botch, I know you are probably busy in your lab.... just got the phone with the prof, he is asking for references to all your statements about the mind? I said you would likely have them handy as you quoted from them so briskly.... its not like they came from the top of your head or anything...lolz....
So yeah... any references for all your statements please?....
bts, there is no way to take a picture, for instance, below the level of the electron, because the instruments we use to observe are electrons. Nevertheless, a great deal can be learned about their structure through mathematical predictions and testing against those predictions. That is, bash the atoms and see what comes out. I am sure I am not telling you anything you don't know already.
Similarly, no-one has taken a tape-measure to a star. Nevertheless, from known constants and triangulation, we can get very precise measurements.
It might be possible, bts, that you are quoting an old adage about the things we "cannot" know, such as how the mind functions, that has been bandied about for decades. But these days we have non-invasive observation tools such as the CT and MRI scans. Subjects can be asked to do various tasks and while we take three-dimensional pictures of what is happening in their brain/mind in real time.
Yes, cofty.
Very cool thanks!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_other_minds
The problem of other minds has traditionally been regarded as an epistemological challenge raised by the skeptic. The challenge may be expressed as follows: given that I can only observe the behavior of others, how can I know that others have minds? The thought behind the question is that no matter how sophisticated someone's behavior is, behavior on its own is not sufficient to guarantee the presence of mentality. It remains possible, for example, that other people are actually nothing more than automata made out of flesh (or "philosophical zombies" as the term for this example stands). Perhaps the main argument offered against this possibility in the history of philosophy is the argument from analogy (other things have minds if they are sufficiently similar to us); it can be found in the works of John Stuart Mill, A. J. Ayer, and Bertrand Russell. The argument from analogy has faced scrutiny from the likes of Norman Malcolm who have issues with the 'one case' nature of the argument.
BTS, philosophical conundrums can trot along very well without evidence. I thought we were talking about evidence.
bts, there is no way to take a picture, for instance, below the level of the electron, because the instruments we use to observe are electrons .
Yes, but as we both know, electrons are measured in other ways.
Similarly, no-one has taken a tape-measure to a star. Nevertheless, from known constants and triangulation, we can get very precise measurements.
Which is the long distance equivalent of a tape measure. Really, there is no difference since we are using physical phenomenon to measure a physical object.
It might be possible, bts, that you are quoting an old adage about the things we "cannot" know, such as how the mind functions, that has been bandied about for decades. But these days we have non-invasive observation tools such as the CT and MRI scans. Subjects can be asked to do various tasks and while we take three-dimensional pictures of what is happening in their brain/mind in real time .
You mean how the brain functions. The technology you mention measures the physical state of an organ, the brain.
BTS, philosophical conundrums can trot along very well without evidence. I thought we were talking about evidence.
Jgnat, it is a philosophical and scientific subject. I am well aware that we can measure the activity of the brain.
