Invited to Attend a J W Kangaroo Court Proceeding: Tell Them to: Put the Reason for Requesting Your Presents in Writing Along With Any Alleged Charges of Wrong Doing, So You Can Give it To Your Lawyer.

by frankiespeakin 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    By doing this the Elders have to contact HQ to get further instructions. In many cases they will think it just not worth the red tape to proceed any further. Unless they concider you a real bad apple or threat that needs to be delt with in which case it should hold them off for a couple of months till they get direction from HQ.

    The WT is being threatened with law suits, they have to deal with big legal concideration of child molestation and other areas as the public is become less and less tollerant of wacko religions with abusive behavior. Capitalize on the WT loosing legal battles, and thier hesitancy to start any new ones as thier plate is already full which threatens thier very existance. They really don't want any more bad publicity it they can avoid it they will.

    Even if you don't have a lawyer tell them you do anyway, keep thier feet to the flame so to speak make them feel they have everything to loose by proceeding any further. Put up a good bluff, and if you are able to get anything in writing from them(highly unlikeley) keep it, as it may be used latter if a class action law suit ever occurs.

    I'm thinking in the future the legal world will be taking on these abusive cults especially if there is money to be made(they have stock piled assets).

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    There was a letter thats been used several times in this scenario. It appaears to get traction and the brothers back off. It's been posted around. It talks about people making public statements that can have an effect in your standing in the community, (slandar)

  • blondie
    blondie

    Two days after I sent Letter 1, I received a call from two the the elders of my congregation. They asked if I were formally disassociating myself. When I replied that I was not, I was invited to appear before them to face charges of apostasy. I sent this letter as a reply to that invitation. The elders never replied either in writing or verbally.

    December 17, 1999

    Dear Brothers,

    I realize how difficult all of this is for you in dealing with me, what I said in my recent letter and where all of this is likely going. My purpose in writing that letter was not to cause any of you any trouble, but just to let my old friends know what was happening with me. In that letter, I was able to address you and the others I wrote to as friends, some of whom I have known for more than twenty five years. I know that you are doing what you think is right, but please realize that I am doing the same. None of what follows in this letter is meant to cause any of you any personal grief. Despite all this I love you brothers very much.

    In my recent phone conversation with Paul W___ and Paul D______, I was not surprised at all at the way our conversation went. Having dealt with many judicial situations while I was an elder, I know that friendship ends up taking second place to organizational concerns in situations such as this. Since you are dealing with me, not as friends, but as elders appointed by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Incorporated, and since I think there is good reason to believe that you will be consulting and/or reporting to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Incorporated, I feel I must respond to you as agents of that corporation rather than as I would like to – as friends.

    I have decided that I will not formally disassociate myself from the Portsmouth Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or from Jehovah’s Witnesses in general. I came to this decision for several reasons. First, there is nothing I see in the Bible that calls for a formal letter of disassociation in my situation, or any other. It seems to me that the provision of formal disassociation is a matter of convenience for the legal department of the Watchtower Society rather than serving any real religious purpose. It allows people to be pigeon-holed into nice neat little categories rather than dealing with the real issues involved. Also, I have no problem with the Portsmouth Congregation or its members. My disagreement is with certain actions, policies, teachings and writings contained in publications that are produced and in oral teachings promulgated either individually or collectively by the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses and its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc. and the International Bible Students Association.

    The purpose of this letter is to clarify certain matters and to secure and protect what I consider basic human rights in dealing with agents of the multinational, multi-billion dollar Watchtower corporations.

    Since you have asked me to appear before a judicial committee to face charges of apostacy, there are a few things that I must ask for and which I feel must be clarified before I will even consider meeting with a judicial committee.

    1. I shall be notified in writing of the time, place and purpose of any meetings with a judicial committee.

    2. I shall be notified in writing of the exact purpose of the meetings.

    3. I shall be notified in writing exactly on whose behalf the judicial committee was convened and is acting: the Portsmouth Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the Portsmouth Company of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.

    4. If any other agency other than the one for whom the judicial committee has informed me they are acting for is consulted, reported to, or allowed to have any bearing on the outcome of the judicial process, I will consider the judicial committee as acting in the their behalf.

    5. I shall be notified in writing as to my status as a member of any and all of the organizations for which the committee is acting or to which the committee will report.

    6. I insist that the judicial committee immediately cease, and in the future desist from any actions toward or against me in behalf of any corporation or organization of which I am not a member.

    7. I shall be notified in writing of any accusations against me, the names of persons making such accusations and the substance of any evidence against me.

    8. I shall be notified in writing of any and all of my rights and responsibilities involved in the judicial process.

    9. I shall be given sufficient time between notification of any meetings with a judicial committee and the time of the actual meeting to prepare a response to any accusations.

    10. I shall be allowed to have one person of my choice present during all meetings between me and the judicial committee as an observer. Since I think there is good reason to believe that the judicial committee may consult with one or more lawyers, specifically those employed by the Legal Department of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Incorporated, the person of my choice may also be a lawyer.

    11. During the meetings with the judicial committee I and/or my observer will be allowed to take whatever notes we feel are necessary.

    Additionally, if the judicial committee takes any judicial action against me :

    12. I will not recognize any action taken by the judicial committee as valid unless it is communicated to me in writing, stating the exact nature and reason for the action.

    13. In this written communication the judicial committee must state exactly on whose behalf they have taken the action, specifically the Portsmouth Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the Portsmouth Company of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.

    14. If the judicial committee has stated that it is acting only for the Portsmouth Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is enjoined from notifying any agency outside the congregation of their action. If the judicial committee or anyone acting in their behalf notifies of reports to anyone outside the Portsmouth Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I may take any appropriate legal action.

    15. I may appeal any action taken by the judicial committee.

    16. Before I will meet with an appeal committee, that committee must notify me in writing of the names of all of the members of the appeal committee and who each one represents: the Portsmouth Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the Portsmouth Company of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named

    17. There shall be no contact between the judicial committee and the appeal committee other than to inform them of the time and place of my meetings with them. If I determine that there is any contact, communication or attempt on the part of any of the members of the original judicial committee or anyone acting on their behalf to, in any way prejudice or sway the appeal committee, I will insist that a new appeal committee be formed.

    18. I shall be notified in writing of any and all of my rights and responsibilities involved in the appeal process.

    19. I shall be allowed to have one person of my choice present during the all meetings between me and the appeal committee. Since I think there is good reason to believe that the appeal committee may consult with one or more lawyers, specifically those employed by the Legal Department of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Incorporated, the person of my choice may also be a lawyer.

    20. During the meetings with the appeal committee I and/or my observer will take whatever notes we feel are necessary.

    21. I will not recognize any action taken by the appeal committee as valid unless it is communicated to me in writing, stating the exact nature and reason for the action.

    22. In this written communication the appeal committee must state exactly on whose behalf they are taking the action, specifically the Portsmouth Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporation the Portsmouth Company of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.

    23. If the appeal committee has stated that it is acting only for the Portsmouth Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, it is enjoined from notifying any agency outside the congregation of their action. If the appeal committee or anyone acting in their behalf notifies or reports to anyone outside the Portsmouth Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I may take any appropriate legal action.

    24. I understand that if I am disfellowshipped by the judicial committee and the disfellowshipping is upheld by the appeal committee that I am, at that point, no longer considered to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I also understand that it is necessary to make a brief announcement that I have been disfellowshipped. From then on, I will consider any attempt to convince by speeches, talks or teaching; to coerce by implied or actual threat of similar judicial action; or to encourage by private counsel or suggestion any of Jehovah’s Witnesses to treat me differently from any other person that is not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses to be a serious violation of my civil rights and I may initiate any legal action, civil or criminal that I deem appropriate. This includes any attempt to convince by speeches, talks or teaching; to coerce by implied or actual threat of similar judicial action; or to encourage by private counsel or suggestion any present Jehovah’s Witnesses to shun or avoid me, cease or otherwise modify their doing business with me, or terminate or otherwise abrogate any lease, rental, mortgage, or any other legal agreement that I may presently have with them. I may consider such to be an infringement of free trade and may initiate appropriate legal action.

    25. I consider any communication between the members of the judicial committee and myself and the appeal committee and myself to be ecclesiastically privileged. Any attempt to reveal the substance or tone of those communications to any other person or group will be considered by me to be a breach of that privilege and may result in legal action. This includes any announcements beyond the fact of my disfellowshipping, speeches, talks, or any other communication, written or oral, public or private.

    I fully realize that you may be unwilling or that the Watchtower corporations will not allow you to comply with the preceding.

    I respectfully await your written response

    http://www.docbob.org/wordpress/letter-2

    http://www.docbob.org/wordpress/letter-1

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Blondie,

    Excellent letter, definately put you in a better position to avoid a JC. Perhaps some can glean what they concide usefull and incorporate it in thier letter.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Doc Bob's excellent letter is on here , or the link to it if you use search.

    The point is to make it clear that you will be considering suing each of the Elders on the J.C individually. Quite often at least two out of the 3 have no real assets, and the one that has will want to keep them, they may find it difficult to get 3 volunteers.

    Make it plain that any statement about you, such as "Bro So and So is no longer one of JW's" you will consider to be slander, anything in writing to that effect you will consider Libel.

    Also in Doc's letter, if memory serves, he insisted they define who they represent, if it is just the Local Cong then you want assurance they will pass no details on to anyone else.(i.e the WT) If they admit they are representing the WT ask for the WT to confirm this to you in writing.

    As they do not allow recording devices they must allow you a legal representative who will take notes of the things said, so as to be able to prepare an appeal. You want written notice of the charges and evidence against you.

    They may well come back with "this is not a Court of law, we simply wish to help you Blah Blah"

    If it is not a court then it is not a Judicial anything, if it is a court it should act according to the standards layed down in the Human Rights legislation of various countries and by the U.N

    Make it as awkward for them as possible, if it comes down to them holding a JC anyway, at least take the opportunity to bugger them about a bit, change the date several times, it may be your last chance to show how very silly, and wrong, their whole system is.

    Of course, you have no control over the rumour mill, all sorts of lies will be told about you which you will have no way stopping, but that would have happened anyway.

    When a number of XJW's have gone down this route, no J.C has been set up, just an Elder or two saying "Oh he threatened to go Legal" and then making sure you are still shunned, so be prepared for that, which too, would have happened anyway.

    EDITED to add : Blondie got in with her excellent letter whilst i was writing this post.

  • cyberjesus
    cyberjesus

    how did you manage to become an elder?

  • blondie
    blondie

    cyberjesus, are you talking to me? I did not write these letters merely knew who did (a male jw) and posted them here for information.

  • caliber
    caliber

    marked

  • Skbj
    Skbj

    Excellent letters Blondie thanks for posting, I'm not surprised why they didn't respond, such a legal tone must have intimidated them profundly. It's sad how the WT proceedings are designed to emotionally/psychologically intimidate people i.e. 3 elders Vs 1 person, however as always when you stand firm with logic and respect they go away like dust.

  • ziddina
    ziddina

    Haw!!! I LOVE it!!!

    Unfortunately, most JWs are too bullied, intimidated and cowed to stand up to the Watchtower Society's "authority on earth"...

    But for those who are at least semi-awake, it is a GREAT idea!!!

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