Which is best? An EVOLVED or a CREATED human?

by Terry 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  PSacramento

  To me, it just means that a human could theoretically make a decision that is completely free from the influence of inherited behavior or the learning experiences gained from his prior environment.

  In that sense of the term, I highly doubt that free will is really possible for a human in ANY circumstance.

  Any choice that is not coerced is a choice don't FREE of coersion, no?

  Our environment and upbrining will influence our choices yes BUT not to the point that those choices are dictate by something OTHER than our choie to choose.

  One may be born into a JW family and be raised as a JW YET, it is pure choice to remain one.
• 

  Terry

  To me, it just means that a human could theoretically make a decision that is completely free from the influence of inherited behavior or the learning experiences gained from his prior environment.

  I can't see how you free man from being man. Nature.

  We each are born WITH "a" nature. We do not...we cannot...choose THAT.

  A gay man is attracted to men-- NOT BY CHOICE. It is in the nature of being homosexual.

  But, among the men he is attracted to he makes choices. You see? It is not the same thing at all.

  The subset of decisions (which particular guy you choose) is not nearly as important as the concept of NO CHOICE in being gay in the first place!

  Essential questions of nature are far more important in falsifying Free Will than subsets of particulars within a given nature.

  A mouse makes mouse choices. The most important thing is BEING a mouse, however, which was not chosen.

  And the beat goes on.....
• 

  james_woods

  I can't see how you free man from being man. Nature.

  We each are born WITH "a" nature. We do not...we cannot...choose THAT.

  A gay man is attracted to men-- NOT BY CHOICE. It is in the nature of being homosexual.

  But, among the men he is attracted to he makes choices. You see? It is not the same thing at all.

  This, I think, is what Einstein meant when he denied absolute "free will".

  The illustration of the gay person is perfectly on target - gays again and again will tell you they did not "choose" to be gay. Straights will naturally tell you the same thing.

  Now - there may be a measure of free will in whoever a gay or straight person picks as a partner, but how much free will? How much is that also influenced by heredity or environment?

  These are all great mysteries.

  And, of course, all of this raises deep questions about the mythical "Adam in Eden" and his culpability for eating the fruit of the tree.
• 

  Larsinger58

  FREE WILL is only necessary when you have choices. Right? Think about it.

  If you have two choices, rice or beans, then you can exercise free will. But if there is only rice, then not only do you not have free will, but you don't need it.

  That begs the question regarding free will under God's rule. As it appears, free will is given to chose whether you will serve God or not. But this is only for a certain period of time. Once you have chosen to serve God and made that choice, then that choice is taken away from you and you no longer have choice, but you feel good because when you did have a choice you chose God.

  There is no need for "free will" after the choice is made. But God goes a bit further and makes sure you're convicted of your choice; thus you must be willing to die for your choice. So in the end, you don't have a universe of free moral agents, but a universe of some very content and happy individuals who are happy with their choice.
• 

  Terry

  As it appears, free will is given to choose whether you will serve God or not.

  A parent takes their inexperienced child to the edge of a swimming pool and says: "Don't go in the water or you will surely drown."

  The child goes in the water anyway and drowns.

  It's okay. The child made a choice.

  What exactly does "drown" mean anyway? The parent can swim like a fish.

  The heavenly parent says to their other child "Don't be sexually attracted to the same sex as you are."

  But, the child is gay and is always noticing the same sex.

  This is bad, of course because they should be obedient and simply choose to be attracted to the opposite sex.

  See how silly this?

  Context is everything.
• 

  james_woods

  Excellent, Terry.
• 

  Terry

  A handcuffed man can scratch his own nose, therefore, he is FREE!
• 

  Anony Mous

  If you were created, you were created by a flawed creator. Look at yourself, you're full of flaws and engineering mistakes. We're not a finished product, far from it.

  As far as evolution: it has been proven, there is even proof we have evolved slightly over the last 200 years.
• 

  insearchoftruth4

  So then you are saying Homo Sapiens are Wise Homos, a gay man is attracted to men. EVOLVED or CREATED. I'm so glad there is WOMEN cause a world full of dudes just don' appeal to me....... to each his own!
• 

  Vidiot

  Evolved.

  An evolved organism still has the potential to adapt to a radically changing environment.