Pterist, is there Allah?
FINALLY! Can you prove God exists? If you can I won't ask again!
by punkofnice 544 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Pterist
based on occam's razor. The simplest explanation is most likely true. All can be explained without the existence of God.] when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better ." God's existence cannot be deduced by reason alone.
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PSacramento
a·the·ist
[ ey -thee-ist ] Show IPA noun aperson who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings. The above is from dictionary.com Merriam webster and others state pretty much the same thing in regards to the definition of the WORD. Atheisim isn't a belief systems in the truest sense of the word BUT it is a belief, in this case the belief that there is no evidence and/or proof for God(s). If a person believes that, based on what they know and understand, there is no God(s) then that person is an atheist. We can play little semantics games in regards to beliefs, unbeliefs or what not, but going if a theist is a person that believs there is a God then an atheist is a person that believes there is no god. I think what is at issue is the TYPE of evidence that a person needs to believe ( or disbelieve) in God. There is no way to prove there is ( or isn't a God) so a person goes on all the evidence they have avialable to them, then they decide for themselves of that evidence is enough for belief.
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jgnat
Pterist, we are talking about a skeptic asking for proof. An explanation of creation without the interference of God is the simpler theory.
If proof cannot be offered, then we are no longer walking in the realm of reason.
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PSacramento
I often wonder how William of Ockham would feel seeing his argument used to try and dispell the existence of God.
He'd probably blame Sir William Hamilton for it.
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Pterist
Jgnat. If God exists, ( which I accept ) This creation is His argument of proof of his existence based on Romans 1.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse ...
Any Skeptic must look in wonder at the enormity of creation.
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mrsjones5
" Any Skeptic must look in wonder at the enormity of creation."
So you think or hope but only if the skeptic accepts it under that language. I tend to think not.
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jgnat
Life and the universe, for sure, is stunning in its complexity and vastness.
Pterist, you are starting with the bible and applying a little "proof" to it.
Stepping out of yourself for a moment, and without the use of the bible, a person of reason can imagine the great clockworks of our universe set in motion, without a god. It also happens to be the simpler explanation. The person of reason would have to see unassailable proof of the more complex answer to give up this position.
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PSacramento
It really does end up being about belief.
If a person sees this world, this universe and is ok with it all being by chance witn no purpose, then that is what they will believe.
If a person sees this world, this universe and thinks there must be a reason ( or at least a purpose) for it, then that iw what they will believe.
It could be a "comfort level" thing, for some they are comfortable with nothing being the beginning, the middle and the end, for others they need "something more than nothing".
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NewChapter
Both must take a leap of "faith"
theists: it had a source, a first cause, a designer....
atheists: it just happened. but one of the fundamental principles of atheism is that evidence must be available to point to, to draw conclusion.....Where is the evidence of nothing ?
No. This would be wrong in my case. It's more like this:
Atheist: We don't know the answers yet.
Theist: We know all the answers---it was a god.
Only one stance requires faith.