Do People Believe We Are Condemned B/c of Adam and Eve? (page 2)

cofty

unstop - so god chose who would be saved before they were even born and condemns those who he decides not to call to eternal torment.

What a monster your god is. You don't love him - you have a serious case of Stockholm Syndrome.

you are forgeting one huge part, rev 13;8 jesus was the lamb before adam even existed he was already the sacrifice, prepared before creation. not only did god know what would happen it was his plan for jesus to redem mankind.

Think about what you just said very carefully. If God chose to forknow what would happen and still created man anyway, than he is 100% responsible for all the evil and suffering that has ever happened and he must own it. There is no way out of this. If he did know it all and wanted man to experience suffering for some perverted reason, I cringe at pondering the question of why? I do always find this stuff interesting to discuss, but I do believe it all to be fairytales. Everything makes much more sense when you realize that the concept of god is just that.

St George of England

Adam & Eve is just an allegorical story. Humans were on on the earth long before 4026 BCE. It's just like trying to convince people the earth is flat, science exposed these fables long ago.

Sadly the WTS still peddles the fables and people, including me, believed it for years. Sigh

George

tec

Condemned, no. That we have the same flesh as Adam and Eve (inherited from them because they were the first), which flesh DOES die, because it has death in it... yes.

Peace to you,

tammy (on my way out for a bit, but I saw this and wanted to respond first)

sabastious

I have no clue as to whether humanity was worthy starting.

Really? Then how can you call yourself a woman in Christ? Christ came to SAVE THE WORLD therefore deeming it WORTHY of life. Of course humanity was worth starting. If it wasn't then why would Christ die in order to finish it and create prosperity?

What is more important to me is I am human and I am here presently. I will not be here in the future. This is the fate of all living creatures. Some say death makes life worthwile.

Life should take precedence within the mind over death. To become fixated on one's own mortality is a secular, rather than spiritual pursuit. You and I are eternal, otherwise the questions we answer in this life are inconsequential. A better design would be to create LESS people who lived much longer if you are looking to answer the question of free will. The last thing you want is a bunch of short lifespans. Most people don't accomplish what they want in a single lifetime, they don't get the chance while trying to survive. This is why the concept of reincarnation works so well with Christian theology.

If you postulate the existence of an eternal soul your body merely becomes a temporary vessel housing a spiritual entity. The question of free will in conjuncture with the creation of Man makes more sense if this is NOT the only life we have. The choices you and I make in this life are trivial in comparison to the whole picture, but if our choices are appended to the ones of past lives what is left is a comprehensive whole. So we SHOULD be extremely concerned with the choices we make in THIS life, but it's best to understand that they are part of a whole and not in arbitrary isolation.

There are many species besides humans on this planet. We are very human-centric.

It doesn't matter how many species humans live with, all of them are in subjugation. We are so far ahead of second place it's pretty remarkable. Yes, many species have biological niches that greatly surpass our senses, such as a dog's nose or a dolphins sonar sensors. However if we choose to turn either into a meal they are incapable of sufficient resistance. We are the gods of animals. It is within our God-given power to choose their fate. It's not HUMANS that are human centric, it's EARTH that is.

I believe free will is a human concept to explain suffering.

It does perfectly explain suffering, but we only discovered that we have free will, BECAUSE of free will. Free will has always existed because God has always existed. To call it merely a human concept is intellectually limiting. When we evolved to the point where we could see color that didn't mean we created color, it just means we suddenly became aware of color. The same goes for free will.

Personally, I reject YHWH completely.

Rejecting the Jews and their deity as a whole is grave mistake. The ETERNAL covenant they have with God is very real, we must stand with them or perish.

Christ is how my culture interprets the sacred.

Yet, Christ is the Son of YHWH. How do you reject the Father and honor the Son at the same time? If the Son rejected the Father that would be one thing, but no such thing occured, in fact quite the opposite.

The West has made a big mistake by emphasizing the Jewish scriptures over all others.

All Christian Scripture is an extention of the Hebrew Bible. All early Christians were Jews therefore it's only natural that their Scripture would be venerated above all others as it serves as a permanent foundation (Matthew 7:24).

Do you realize what a teeny country Israel was? It is cultural ignorance to believe they have a monopoly on truth.

You must understand WHY specifically Israel was chosen to lead the world. It's BECAUSE they were the least likely entity in the eyes of the people of the world during their time. Israel was a weak and feeble nation compared to the one's that surrounded it. They were chosen because of their unyielding faith which has always gotten them a long list of sworn enemies. They didn't always practice their faith in an acceptable manner, but they never turned away from the One True God whereas the surrounding nations did. Eventually they did, but only after they were chosen and they were severely punished for these trangressions against their God.

Peter was called "the rock" that Jesus would establish the church upon. Like Israel, Peter was the LEAST likely to be chosen by his peers as a leader and therefore Jesus was showing his disciples that their prioritizing schemes in regards to leadership were HIGHLY flawed. The person they considered the LEAST was actually the GREATEST and deserved power and authority to establish a church dedicated to Christ. The same goes for the whole nation of Israel. They were chosen because of them being CAST aside by their peers. That's why in Revelation the chosen people of God are actually the rejects of the Dragon. Not being chosen by the Devil makes you chosen by The One True God.

It is cultural ignorance to believe they have a monopoly on truth.

They have a monopoly on truth because they were chosen by God (by being rejected by the nations). If you want to talk about culture think about how much anti-semitism exists on this planet. Again we have the nations REJECTING the nation of Israel and calling them "overatted." For how long have they been the underdog? It's cliche at this point. Yet, despite unimaginable opposition they always win in the end and this time period is no different, the answer is that THEY HAVE GOD'S BACKING, because God doesn't break a promise. Everything revolves around God's relationship with Abraham and what was accomplished during those times.

I like to see myself as a citizen of earth.

Absolutely, I do too, however the ruling nation of the Earth is Israel which is why it's been under extreme contention for thousands of years. It only ends once, however. The final battle of Megiddo will settle the contention once and for all.

-Sab

unstopableravens

cofty can you do me a favor and you post eph 1:3-8 i think this answer the question of when people are chosen by god. thanks please keep in mind im only going off what the bible is saying. i really am not teaching my own thing, thats the last thing i want to do. thanks bud.

unstopableravens

tootiredtocare do you see rev 13:8 saying something different?

cofty

im only going off what the bible is saying

unstop - when a book compels you to assent to appalling beliefs its time to ask yourself why?

cantleave

im only going off what the bible is saying

Time to work towards a new paradigm...

tootired2care

@unstop- tootiredtocare do you see rev 13:8 saying something different?

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. KJV

That scripture is subject to interpretation, it says FROM not BEFORE so one could easily argue that the lamb was as good as slain when the first act of disobedience occured with Adam and Eve from the beginning of the world of mankind. So yes like so many versus in the bible they say different things to so many that is why there are thousands of different forms of xtianty because god is a really sh1tty communicator.

Do People Believe We Are Condemned B/c of Adam and Eve?

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