by FaceTheFacts 259 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
So much for "goodbye for good". I wonder how long it will take this doofus to realise no one wants him here with his paltry reasoning and his flawed appeals to pride.
For the lurkers, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
BS filter will be set to high alert for clones of this guy though.
Bye Macho/FaceTheFacts/Ethos/Recovery/StillRecovery....
Judging by your long goodbye, I have a feeling this isn't the last we've seen of you, which is a shame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtivSTZrezc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o48aZ_C52wc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2C5TjS2sh4
Cedars
typical Dub, reverting to the usual personal attacks and abuse
How many more incarnations will he have? This is getting just ridiculous!!
He has his head in the sand just as the GB do. (Maybe he's one of them? ) Because they cannot accept that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587BCE they have to have something to hang on to. Ie. the 70 years servitude and they have to try and make it fit with their own interpretation of historical events.
They are too pig headed to accept the thousands of irrefutable evidence staring them in the face that they have to push it all to one side. However. what is the starting point? It's based on the same historical evidence that they refuse to accept! The bible has no dates except those based on the reigns of the various kings so dates have to be relied upon as produced by archeological evidence. I'm not hot on all the ins and outs of all the arguements but even this makes sense to me!
For someone who claims he's intelligent then why can't he see the simple truth?
Recovery/StillRecovery/OlinMoyle41/Ethos/FaceTheFacts/Macho..... (and any other incarnations) you're the one who has embarrassed himself.
"If I can't win I won't play"
I expect that with all this knowledge, discovered from thorough research, that flies in the face of the majority of scholarly research, we can soon expect a book to be released exposing all of those other scholars as being wrong.
Would it survive the peer review process?
Perhaps a more important question is: Under which pseudonym will it be published?
I now understand why new posters have 10 post limit! Thank you Simon.....
Such denial that he cant even man up and say he is the same prat as Recovery / Ethos etc.. So good little JDub that he is decides to tell outright lies about it instead, ooh he thinks he's learnt some hebrew in the last few weeks does he, so he talks down to everybody. PATHETIC.
None of his crap explains anything other than the total delusion that is the belief in 607. No proof of anything just arguing over words. Where is the archeological proof that there was extra kings or extra years of reign for the existing ones, ...there is none and never will be as it is a very well documented period in history with many 10s of thousands of tablets documenting each kings reign. Arguing about semantics changes jack shit about when Jerusalem was destroyed, because unless you have found some tablets to cover 20 extra years of rulership or an extra king for that period, then you have nothing.
Thats not going to happen, so get over it. This obsession of Recovery seems more to do with his mental state than anything to do with an honest search for truth.
Hi lurkers! I hope you are doing well.
I hope you can see what happens when humans try to make up stuff as they go along. You see, if you are a JW, then you must believe whatever current truth is being taught. It doesn't matter if it is true or not. It is all about controlling you and separating you from the Christ. Just tell your local Elder's that you do not believe the current " generation " teaching is correct, or the " Spiritual Mother " teaching. Just ask if we are all domestics now, is Christ my mediator? Is he only the mediator for some of the domestics? Just see what happens to you if you start asking questions.
Remember the truth that you need to know right now is simple. Don't be taken in by slick sounding smarties like the Trolls here. The WTBT$ is so desperate right now to keep control over the sheep. You have all been noticing it lately. The crazy rants at the conventions, the symposiums that are long enough to stimulate the emotions, but never really answering anything in depth? Contradictory WT teaching...They have nothing new to teach. They are done. They are just shuffling the deck, re-heating the leftovers.
They are so desperate that I have no doubt that Recovery/Ethos/Elephant/Still Recovery/FTF have been assigned by the WTBT$ to do what they do. FTF is a little too educated to be a normal dub. Notice I said educated, as opposed to ignorant. Most dubs don't have enough knowledge to wage a losing battle like FTF. It is not their fault, they have been subjugated by a corporation who wants them ignorant. These trolls are working for the WTBT$, no way around it. They would call it " Theocratic Warfare ". That is the word they use to justify the hypocrisy of coming here to debate, while claiming to obey the FDS about not going to the internet to discuss the Bible. They are allowed to do these things while the R&F are scared to do anything accept go to JW.org. Just think about it..
Posting it again....
Just posting for good measure
For Lurkers:
Don't be confused by the wordiness of FACE THE FACTS. His writings are very similar to Fred Franz' 1975 speech or a current political leader's speech. In the end it goes nowhere and answers nothing.
Here is the simple truth which you can see for yourself, just by doing a little research and facing the facts. Charles Taze Russel ( not a FDS by current nu-lite ) did NOT come up with 1914 or the 2,520 days on his own or under inspiration from GOD. He was simply caught up in the moment, or carrying the torch that others before him set ablaze. Remember, no man in the scriptures has EVER been authorized to set any kind of date. In fact it is warned against. Any time that any human from any religion has tried to add to the scriptures, they are always proven wrong. For example, when did J.F.Rutherford say the heavenly calling ended? Was he correct? Exactly. The list goes on.
Did C.T Russel intentionally mislead people? I can't say. I am not the judge of any man. Still, the facts are that C.T.Russel did NOT originate the 1914 date and 2,520 years. The fact is that he did rely on Pyramidology. This is easily proven. Just find an old copy of the STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES. Notice how simple my writing style is? It is not necessary to be wordy when the simple truth will do just fine.
BTW, IF C.T.Russels predecessors were correct, or at least part of the chain eventually leading to Russel's " truth ", who were those men? Nu-lite states that there was no faithful slave " class ". Also, the FDS is only the FDS when specifically coming together for the purpose of feeding the domestics according to nu-lite. So again, If Russel was correct, who was he? Who helped him? Who were they? Here is one JW apologists' view:
" much of Gods written word was hidden from mankinds eyes for a reason until these last days--so that the fds and no one else could have truths revealed through them exclusively-- otherwise all through mankinds history, man could have studied Gods word and knew those truths, but it is clear at Daniel 12:4--they could not see the truths God hid just by reading the bible. Only through Jesus's appointed teachers would these truths be revealed at the proper time and become abundant in the last days( now). And until it was the proper time errors in teachings would occur thus changes had to be made--so this is fact--in the end whoever made the corrections from errors to truths, will be right in the end. And with the abundance of ridiculing hearts towards religions and teachings--all would see the changes. "
If C.T. Russel and associates were responsible for dispensing truth as " Jesus' appointed teachers ", especially in regards to the 2,520 days, then the current nu-light cannot be correct. According to the nu-light, C.T.Russel could not be "Jesus' appointed teacher ", therefore Russels teaching could not be true because " the fds and no one else could have truths revealed to them exclusively ". What a tangled web!
The simple truth is this. C.T. Russel was a man. He stood on the shoulders of other men. The men before him were mistaken, whatever their motive was. C.T. Russel was also mistaken in many areas as the passage of time has proven. He made some statements that he thought were true. Worst case, he embellished other's teachings, not realizing 100 years down the road that he would be gone and the internet would exist making fact checking very easy, in contrast to his day. So, he messed up, but there was a business to run. J.F. Rutherford realized this and took over. Perhaps he also believed the end was near, I can't say for sure. He surely never realized that we could easily check all his " Facts " as well.
FACE THE FACTS is doing anything but facing the facts. Please don't be confused by his circuitous ramblings and pasting of WT articles. Just calm down, take a deep breath, and check the information out for yourselves. Remember that a legitimate group or organization has absolutely no valid reason for obscuring facts, or attempting to control information.
In the end, " .. we can do nothing against the truth, but only for the truth". 2 Cor: 13:8
Peace,
DD
Macho has been a member since 11/1/2012. How many concurrent incarnations does he have?
(Been busy with real life stuff.)
Even though you're not worth the effort, what-ever-ya-name-is-now, and will probably be banned yet again anyway, I still want to respond to a few points.
There was nothing dishonest about my quotations. There is nothing dishonest with combining multiple references to the same argument, even if they are presented on different pages.
You were combining multiple references into one PARAGRAPH as if the author had originally formulated his comments that way without any development of further argumentation in between. Disgraceful! That you are protesting otherwise is shameful. You should just say, 'Yep, my apologies - that was bad form/an oversight and I'll take better care in the future.'
The silly quotation arguments are elementary at best and shows you have no answer for the arguments presented and that you would rather cherrypick something to complain about.
Others have answered you.
I am saying in this specific instance it makes little sense to belittle the Watchtower's interpretation of the seventy years by showing what Jeremiah 25 says, if their understanding of what Jeremiah 25 means, is CONTINGENT upon other scriptures. A ridiculous circular argument about if it's a fallacy or not...which shows you have nothing to say about the REAL ARGUMENTS.
We all know what you said and what you were suggesting. You were presenting a NON-argument and no more time should be wasted on it.
why (after 5 pages and counting) have you failed to address the main thrust of my argument (namely, the perfect mood of the Hebrew morphology)
It has already been well addressed by Jeffro.
That is not standard Biblical exegesis at all. It makes little sense to say "correctly understand the primary texts first" IF the primary text is later re-interpreted and re-explained. To arrive at a proper understanding of what the primary text is saying you would have to examine the other texts FIRST and then after examining a preponderance of evidence, arrive at a conclusion which would then be CONTINGENT on (i.e. dependent) the other texts.
LOL! If that's your backwards approach, no wonder your interpretations are wonky.
I didn't think page references were necessary as the OP already stated the book, the title, the edition, and the title of thread itself tells us what section the information is taken from (A-1 - Jeremiah 25:10-12).
You thought wrong, then. The quote from p. 191 didn't come from section A-1.
The argument I presented was NOT presented in a previous thread and continues to go unaddressed.
Sure it was. You made the same objections about Jer. 25 and when the servitude began. Plenty of posters addressed them. Perhaps your multiple personalities need to keep each other informed.
Well if Jonnson says the "servitude" meant "vassalage" and proposes that the servitude began in 609 B.C., the burden of proof requires he substantiate that with a tribute of vassalage to Babylon in that year. Strawman? Hardly. An argument you can't address? Quite so.
Strawman? Absolutely. Addressed already.
The only thing people have come up with is that the LXX is defective and here's the irony: they had to use a Watchtower reference to do it.
'People'? You're specifically referring to Jonsson. The Insight book's comments were quoted as part of Jonsson's footnote you deliberately omitted to give the false impression he believed Jer-LXX was an older source than Jer-MT!
Regarding your non-argument about tribute and servitude. I'll try and explain in simpler terms:
The Assyrian people were conquered, cities looted and/or destroyed, exiles taken and so were forced to serve Babylon. A devastated, kingless city cannot pay tribute but the loot and exiles taken from the devastated, kingless city substitute for tribute. The other nations who had the fear of God/the gods put in them by Assyria's (and later Egypt's) defeat, chose to serve Babylon and give them the tribute asked for, and so the Assyrian people and the other nations served Babylon. Jeremiah said the nations should and would serve Babylon one way or another. Jeremiah's prophecy mentioned nothing about paying tribute. However, how it worked was if tribute wasn't paid, Babylon would get mad and forcibly take what they wanted and more. If tribute was paid, Babylon would be happy and leave the nation/city alone. Whether or not tribute was paid, the nations would still serve Babylon.
Get it? Surely one of your personas can understand.
You're still no good at this, y'know.
So long then ... until your next incarnation.
