by El_Guapo 54 Replies latest jw friends
The trinity is a doctrien of nature and not identity.
It states that Father, SOn and HS are share the same nature.
That's all.
If that is not the case, if Jesus and His Father do NOT share the same nature ( Both are God), then the writers of the GOJ and Paul are guilty of stating just that.
In further reply to Question 24: "Jesus when sent to the earth was made to “be Lower” than the angels. (Heb. 2:7) How could any part of a God Head EVER be lower than the angels he created?"
In Luke 2:51, the young Jesus submitted to the authority of Mary and Joseph even though he was the sinless son of God and they were mere sinful humans. So even in the WT view of things, it's possible for a superior being to become lower positionally that those ontologically superior to him.
While I don't agree with my Trinitarian friends here that God is a nature and Jesus a hybrid of dual natures, they are 100% correct that most JW's do not know anything about the mainstream Trinitarian theology. While I still agree there would be no need for Jesus to pray to his father if they shared the same Omnicient "nature", in their current evolution of understanding that doctrine, the explanation works against that arguement.
So Jesus and his father according to Trinitarians are indeed separate people, but are both "God" in the sense that God is a nature (such as human is a nature), and not a person.
While I do not believe this is biblical, it is what Trinitarians believe. So when I explained this to any JW (even when I was swimming in Kool-aid), they gave me this weird look like I was defending the doctrine.
It was maddening.
p.s. - On the polytheism note, calling Jesus "a god" in no way is accurate as it relates to polytheism, as the arguements above are to actual trinitarianism.
Of course Jesus is a God. ANyone who claims to fly to heaven, live forever etc is a God. However let me just say that in no way is a basis for believing any such stories.
Todays pilot who fly in the sky are gods as well. If you were to tell ancients what they do, they would say they are definitely gods. I would also be a god, all i need to do is turn on my tv.
What the writers of the Four Gospels and Paul achieved was a perpetual Golgotha for the Jewish people. Pontius Pilate becomes the sympathetic good guy and the Jews the 'Christ Killer's'. The christian howl carried throughout the centuries was the falsely applied lie of 'his blood be upon us' and christian mobs killed millions of Jews with that accusation on their lips.
NT followers can claim whatever they want about their Leader, Jesus, call him your God if you like, when you're writing fiction or making up a new religion what does it really matter how the imagination runs wild.
I'm not a trinitarian. But still, i can see that john1:1 states plainly that they are of the same nature, as some posters have already explained. The wt refuses to see that and drums up a host of stupid questions. In having the same nature, questions about variations of knowledge, power or duration of existence have no merit. They show that the wt doesn't understand the concept, and does not want to.
S
'All Gods die'. Civilizations advance. We will still have to deal with the effects of the world's religions for more centuries than we should but at least the conversation among the growing educated populace is moving away from the Fundamentalists and Orthodox. We can thank Science and scientists for the contributions they continually present and discover.
In the late 1700s a German brother and sister developed a large Telescope and presented their findings to the world that the Universe was vast, hundreds of millions of light-years vast and then finally Genesis and the Bible could be put on the self with the other legends of the past. All that is left now are for the remaining Bible believers to capitualte and the last obsticles to progress will be out of the way. 'Christianity has held back science for 1000 years' Bill Murray
I don't believe in god anymore. (Long story and I'm not giving od any more get out clauses or benefits of the doubt).
The answer to all the questions no matter your persuasion is 'because the watchtower has no idea what the trinity really is.'
...........and why is the trinity brochure no longer on jw.org?
Answer: The watchtower are full of lies and sh1t.
Ding,
