<<<<Yet, another lie. But I understand you can't help it. That must be really tough for you. And those who know/must deal with you. >>>>
San Francisco or Bay Area Members?
by nibbled 109 Replies latest jw friends
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fizzywiglet
Anyway, I must me off, kiddos. I have to go deal with my miserable, wretched life. Woe is me....
Thanks for the hot sexytimes in Vegas this weekend, doll. You're amazing. We must do it again sometime. If that's your miserable, wretched life, I'll have what you're having. ;)
~An Anony Mouse
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wasblind
welcome Fizzywiglet
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fizzywiglet
:)
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blindnomore
About a year ago I found JWN but was frankly put off by it. The threads I had read were either just mean people who seemed bitter and angry, or there was a lot of bashing of a certain religion.
That's the Watchtower Speaking!
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nibbled
I fear I'll get to work before being able to respond to all this thread, so I'm making a note upfront that I'm being brisk to facilitate responding, but not because it's my "mood". So hear my happy when you read (between the written lines) and receive me with joy, and I look forward to however much time I get to participate today! If nothing else, on the way home tonight and this evening!
Israel in spirit - he is not a Jew who is one on the outside; he is a Jew who is one on the INSIDE
This is about people, the Jews, living up to their "name". I get frustrated how it is that people can't see he was chastising the Jews, not opening it up for other people to become like the Jews in a "spiritual sense".
We were each created by our Father in heaven, and each have a life to live. We shouldn't be clamoring to make ourselves "Jews" in a spiritual sense, nor Israelites.
To be a true Jew, as a Jew, you must be circumcised both in and out—in that day. That's all Paul was saying.
Some of what he (?) wrote was true and accurate; some was not.
"Every Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."
You don't believe "all scripture is inspired"?
What books have you cut out of the canon as from false prophets and what books have you added? (You shake my confidence both in the purity of our association, as well as then chink away at one's faith in the Word as the word of God.)
You consider Isaiah's prophecy bad? "unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah" — interesting place for that notation in scripture.
For those listening to this conversation and who perhaps believe as AGuest that "don't "look" to Paul, [because] some of what he (?) wrote was true and accurate; some was not." I offer that you consider what Paul did not write, and is in scripture. Paul's name is mentioned 130-155 times in the book of Acts. "Jesus" was mentioned by the name 67 times. Of course he was in spirit form and as the resurrected Word of God, and the majority of the instances of "Jesus" name being used in the book of Acts is specifically in chapter 9 in the account of Saul on the road to Damascus, meeting the Christ in spirit, and being called to his ministry.
I make a note, personally, here. The apostles appointed a 12th to replace Judas, yet Christ himself appointed his apostles while on earth. I respect Paul as being the twelfth apostle, as he was appointed by our Christ, and recognize that the apostle who met the requirements designated by the men left behind is not mentioned in the scripture beyond (basically) being appointed by men.
The apostles, meanwhile, all reference Paul in writings, and you have to cut a significant portion of canonized scripture out if you find Paul to be a false prophet. You'd have to cut out all 'his' letters, and in it the "great sacred secret" of the body of Christ.
So I'd like more detail here. That's a bold claim to refute all scripture as being inspired, Paul as being false prophet (they are each either one or the other) and rejecting what you deem good versus bad. I have faith that the Word of God is protecting the word of God.
Regarding the use of "Lord".
First, please respond to the concept of the "lowest common denominator". I cannot know if you have considered this in your study, nor if the concept has struck the heart strings, as I hear only your argumentation and didn't find that in the response…
You reason and give the example that there are "Lord this" and "Lord that". Precisely, AG, precisely. "Lord" is now such a common term. I have many thousands of "Lords" in my family tree referring to thousands of men. Meanwhile, when people translated the Word of God into the words of modern languages they translated both "Ba'al" and "adon_" and the proper name of God into one and the same "Lord".
Thus, each time you say "Lord" you are lowering the esteem of both our Creator and his Salvation.
It personally causes a strange flutter of upset that I now am suppressing each time I read "Jahveh" in your posts, or "Jah". You refer to "Jehovah" as a false god, but cannot see past the forest for the trees for your own "Jahveh". It's simply a name that is not the divine name. He gave us criteria in scripture to discern the name, if we should seek it. So while "your Lord" the spirit voice gave you that name, I immediately now reject anything "your Lord" says as being from a false spirit.
Secondly, we entered into the "ba'al" "lord" conversation because this was to me a further point of evidence in "testing the spirit".
Could or can you recognize that to call him "lord" is to bring him down to the level of men on earth, and into the same melting pot (culturally speaking) as the first and most prominent false god of scripture, "ba'al".
You're a lawyer. In building arguments for court, there are premises upon which you build, and then you test your premises or argument by working backwards. Looking for the weak link.
Unless you're about to tell me that you actually use the original Hebrew and Greek words, you are using a title which in so manner specifically designates the most high God. The title can be used for any god. You use a name which in no way indicates you know the most high God, as the name isn't even based on his chosen language of Hebrew.
I don't enjoy arguing.
I would love to hear that you see that Sarah didn't call Abraham "lord". The word didn't exist. Someone translated what she called him, later, into the same word they translated "ba'al".
At the end of the night the masquerade ball will come to an end, and when all is unmasked the faces of the righteous will shine, and darkness shall be forgotten.
Right now at least we agree "lord" means anything under the sun that you submit to in either human form or spirit.
I can send you many songs from an artist I know who prays to the Devil. He calls him "my Lord". You wouldn't know he prays to the Devil, as his prayers are sincere and you'd find them compelling.
Since he uses "my Lord" no one is the wiser besides those who knows better.
I know many people today who use just that trick to mask that the Lord they refer to is the Devil, and they worship Satan. I hurt each time a see an innocent Christian get snatched up because they didn't know better.
"that the "those" are the non-Israelite nations who JOIN to Israel."
No, I don't mean that. I mean that Israel is an always is simply Israel, as is Judah. When Hosea wrote the words of this prophecy, he didn't write a double-entendre, he wrote a prophecy of restoration for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
In no way shape or form do I believe anyone changes "nationality" or "race", we are who we are, and we were each created and are each special as we are. We don't need nor do the scriptures teach that we shall all become something else to receive the blessings.
There is no scripture which says their is neither Jew nor Greek but that they are all Israel. No, they're all a new creation which has nothing to do with the past designations that little man puts people into.
Move forward, look ahead, not behind us in the past. There are things to come which are for all the people of all the nations. People who promote that we become Israel or are spiritual Jews or should be as Christians (despite who or whatever we really are genetically) are as good as making the same argument as the Jews in the Christian congregation that Paul was refuting.
You're a lawyer, break down his argument with his cross-references. Elijah spoke of 10-Israel. Hosea spoke of 10-Israel. "Goyim" was used by the Jews for referencing 10-Israel AND everyone else that weren't Jews.
We don't have to be Israel or Jew to get anything. We simply have to be a part of the new covenant new creation, symbolized by our participation and discernment of the body, and remembrance of the sacrificial blood which bought us from the earth, and us access to a spiritual life.
I'm glad you're so enlightened that you can use the generic terms and not have confusion. I have a heart which yearns for accuracy and purity and specifics, thanks to knowing how others manipulate the innocent and how Satan masquerades as "the Lord", as an angel of light.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jY6xQAiQEf8
However, consider that since you are a very vocal person, what you say and teach others may not be as easily understood by them as it is for you.
That was part of the problem
It is that problem that I seek to shed light on for others, and in doing so I recognize that Hosea speaking to Israel, and do not refer to "Lord". Since you are aware of the problem, I'll respect that you either choose to contribute to it, or to assist others in avoiding it, helping them readjust their thinking despite the inundation of "the Lord" in every shape form and spirit in the world today. Or you can just defend yourself.
You refer to "the true name" and then use the letter J. (A new letter and sound.)
You ignore the convention in Hebrew of elision (contraction) in the use of Jahveh. (You clearly use "Jah" in reference to what should be the elision.)
You ignore the poet David and his indication of a three syllable name indicated through his poetry. We know that he was loved by our Father for this poetry, thus I have faith that it was preserved and serves a point of significance for us today, and there seems to be no higher purpose than to help reveal the name of our Father.
You use a "V" sound (as well as "J" letter which confuses as to which sound it refers to) which denies the vowel breathing sounds of Hebrew, witnessed by Josephus. Genesis 2:7, Isaiah 42:5, Job 33:4
You state your assertions as if fact, and teach others with a robust voice.
should have been properly preserved.
Yes, it should have. But it wasn't. So we seek, and it is incumbant upon us, to be clear and accurate and precise, and pure. Or we just use "Lord". I prefer to help others to recognize the folly in using "Lord" how very imprecise it is as a term, how it refers both to Satan as well as to anyone else you wish.
Regarding the bride, we should set that aside. Yes, people come to his house. But being in his house doesn't mean you're his bride. There are more members to the family than just the bride and Lamb, there is also the entire body of Christ. See? Bride and bridegroom the Lamb; body of Christ. They are different designations to be clear. If you blur it all together well, then it doesn't mean as intended.
You argue that people have to be apart of the bride. Then leap to that is the new covenant. There's line, "some drink to remember, some drink to forget". Some drink as the bride (accepting the same cup as our Christ), some drink as remembrance (of his sacrifice). We are all, both, apart of the new covenant. But some as the body and some of that body called out or chosen as his bride. Same household, but we can't all be the same body member. (I am serious; what of Paul's teachings do you reject? I would like to see what truth could be discerned even yet, based on eliminating those books. I see it as a challenge, and fun. Sharpening for my mind!)
Again, I believe that any man woman or child is capable of being anointed by holy spirit and apart of the new covenant. But that is not the same as being the bride. At least I do not believe so, and have proven it to myself. The most basic is that then there is no reason to use the term "Body of Christ" as opposed to "bride" as two separate distinctions in scripture (unless there was a meaning and intent to the designations).There is plenty of evidence in Revelation that the bride is distinctly of Israelite "blood" as it were. This doesn't change that through Christ we have come near and are now fellow citizens of NEW Jerusalem (literally, "the new city of peace founded by God"). She is the city, we are the citizens. She is the bride, we are her household. He is her husband (to be), we are their family. There is the bride, and the virgins.
Trust me. I'm single, and 33 years old. This is a very emotional year for me. Suddenly awakened, and I only want one husband. I get it. I want to be (of the) bride, too. But I can't will it to be, we have to be chosen. Isaiah 4. The scriptures state when it is that the bride will be revealed, and the sons of righteousness. So while I hope in my heart of hearts to be chosen as a member of his bride, I am thrilled because I know that I am of his body. It's just the woman in me, who is single, and heartbroken (like David's psalms) who wants to be either the woman adorned by stars in Revelation, or the bride of Christ, in a similar manner as a little girl fed Disney fairy tale stories wishing on a star.
I'm leaving off here to post this. I got to your 1-4 list. I'll pick up if I can in the office. Otherwise this will be the first half, and I'll see you again when I'm online again soon!
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nibbled
Weird. I'm in my office now. Is "DavePerez/King Solomon" a user name?
I'm me.
I'm totally curious.
I also should stop trying to respond inline. I can't keep up.
AGuest, sorry, thought you knew who I was, and I've even offered to you where you could find me and we could talk in peace. Like a virtual conversation over tea, or we can meet in person, and whoever or which ever person you're asking if I am, I imagine they don't have boobs like these (looking down at the very curvy female, emotional and spiritually minded woman me)!
I'm going to see if I can digest the whole then respond quick enough to satisfy all the questions and such.
Also I note we have those who popped in for their one sentence bombs—so pleased to have you join us. What wonderful thing made you smile today? I was grinning like a fool on my walk to my bus this morning and I would love to have shared my smile with you, as a stranger, on the street! :)
Love,
me.
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nibbled
AGuest, my lovely sister, please let peace into your heart and breath.
Let me explain.
Curious world this is.
I am a woman, 33, single and lived a lot of places.
Watchtower-wise, my family is on the "prominent" scale. You can search the DVDROM and find my family name referring to family members.
In places I've lived there are many many many people who meet or know me.
It's, hehe, EntirelyPossible that I have lived or known someone in one of those places who were later able to already identify who I am, name and all, in real life, by my stories here. I marvel at the fact he could figure it out, and though I know it's very easy for some people based on their secular talents, and I have left an enjoyable trail for anyone who desires to come after me out of a tower on a witch hunt.
So shudder, but EntirelyPossible is a human who meets humans and that they might know each other or have met at any point in time in the past has nothing to do with what each other person believes. It's not like you get pregnant from shaking hands with a stranger. Oh my!
I can't speak for your impression of EntirelyPossible, but your attack isn't loving. Who cares who or what he represents. He offered you a FACT. He does, in deed, literally, physically and in entire whole identity, KNOW who I am. I feel a bit vulnerable because I do not know him. He just knows me. That's the way it goes when your life is more "celebrity" than average comfortable every day reality.
When you ask
SA, who wonders just "who" Nibbled "says" she "is" …
What do you mean precisely? My life hasn't afforded me much freedom. What I say is noted by people all over the world. I live under PR management. I am restricted as to what I say, how, when, and why. I say that literally in a secular sense, and I mean it spiritually as a person who has been not in association with the Watchtower for nearly 8 years or so of life, but yet hopes to maintain a connection to my family albeit so little and so spiritually frustrating.
Ah ha! EntirelyPossible, it was that thread that outed me? I'd love to get how you figured out who I was. I'm totally curious. Can you email me? Hope you're well. Thanks for sticking up for "me".
Oh, I love my astronaut! Hi Jgnat, I don't know why but your face seems so familiar to me. I pegged it as simply the desire to know people. Why are you so quiet? I'd love to hear more from you! :)
AGuest, back to you—I have a very demanding job, and I went into the weekend looking forward to spending it online with you—and my other new friends here. Alas, I worked through Friday night dinner, worked until Saturday 3pm, then Sunday had a three year old girl and her mommy over to watch movies while the world watched football after having just brunch as time to myself.
AGuest, I very much enjoy our conversations here, although you know that your "voice" of "the Lord" scares me. I'm no stranger to holy spirit, and I have had more than my fair share of encounters with evil spirits. There is one of one, and many of the other. Ugh.
I say this so simply you know it's not personal. I am testing your spirit, not you. I love you, as I love the young artist I am somehow intertwined with who creeps me out with his lyrics. I can't shake him, and so I pray for strength and go into the battle (with him and his demons). I go in with the equipment outlined that I couldn't even list though probably others could. All I know is that I go in with LOVE.
So while I'm dealing with supporting a drug addict and his recovery who reached out this weekend, on top of the working all weekend, and non-stop till I slept last night, and having to host a child party, which was joyous but inconvenient timing, my heart still wants to be here and responding.
I disappeared because I have a very full life. I would love to have an island were I could go and discuss and read the scriptures until I knew it all, and then as fruit having born a child of my own faith, go and share the fruit with others. That reminds me, I'll be offline all weekend, going to Mexico with a friend, and going to do just that, for four days at least. Ocean side in a cheap hotel with coconut water and Corona, or some other light beer or drinks.
AGuest, something has made your heart sad today. I offer you all my happy, and pray then for more of my own. Take my love, try not to drop it. Landslide, baby.
Posting so I can go to "page 4" and see what's next.
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nibbled
@144001 Hi there. You remind me of a girl I'd love to meet. She sued for 144,001 pennies. I wrote a letter to my mother claiming her as my sister. She lives somewhere close (I know which city), but don't to intrude on her privacy. In any case. Hi! I see you're a visual person, no? Pyramid, immediate recall for Pinocchio and seeing the number is wrong…? Am I right? :)
@fizzywiglet What a great name! But… um, what? Showing the love, or just adding snarky Fizz? Was there an xJW swinger convention in Vegas? Please, not on my thread.
@wasblind and now I see… singing. Hi there, welcome.
@blindnomore Do you assume everyone is one bucket of "type"? I haven't been in the Watchtower in 8 or so years. The bitter angry people are not "Watchtower" people but people who spout off ignorant one liners in an attempt to bash those attempting to have a meaningful conversation. Do you watch Glee? It's the people who walk up and throw a slushy in your face while you were in the middle of a conversation in the hallway. That's who I was referring to. I'm aware that they probably hurt for having been rejected by the Tower, but that's how many of us got freedom (as well as lost access to our family, loving our "love"). I chose to get past the Watchtower and show to love hoping one day to find my own, or until my family returns to loving me. Ironically, I am a "JW". Not DF'ed, nor DA'ed.
Y'all wanted to share anything in this conversation? Or just stopping by to say "Howdy?"
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nibbled
AGuest, picking up responding to your post at the numbered points.
- Becoming a part of Israel during the time of the Old Covenant meant submitting to law, yes. Israel isn't a race, it was a nation. By the phenomenon of either marrying and procreating inside the group, or not, as a directive from God we got an interesting story of life. Judah became the easily recognizable group of people around the world known as Jews, and Israel, marrying among the people of the nations, got lost. Over simplification, but true. He also told them it would happen in nearly every prophet he sent to them.
- Non-Israelite gentiles after 30CE didn't become Israelites after the pouring out of Holy Spirit. Meanwhile those who were Israelites (Jews) who had the Holy Spirit came to be rejected by the nation, as they rejected Christ too. People were, in effect, getting kicked out, not brought in (culturally speaking). The nation was in the very generation where they would no longer be a nation, and would be trampled by the Gentiles.
- Christ does have "other sheep" and they are apart of the fold. Whether we believe that he was speaking to the "lost sheep" and referring to "other sheep" or he was speaking to the Jews and referring to the "lost sheep", either way, ALL are accounted for. Still no need to change nations. You are what and who you are, even when we don't even know!
- I discussed this on another thread, and I can see if I can dig that up. You can search my username. I'm going to move forward as I have to run now and am trying to respond first!
New Jerusalem. Read her description. How much of that is NOT of Israel's imagery? Can any descriptive of her which speaks to the nations, as opposed to the nation of her birth?
I didn't say that there aren't people who are fellow citizens with her (as the 144,000) in that city. Picture it. It's clear if you can see it. I can live in Rome, but it's not until my family would have lived there for 9 generations before I could, culturally, call myself a Roman, according to it's people. Here our citizenship is uncontestedly a city in HEAVEN. Not Israel, not Judah: Not the promised land. (What happens after descent aside.) Look at Zaragoza and Aragon.
"the Christ is the Lamb, sacrificed, and who is raised to become the shepherd, the one head appointed over the children of Judah, the children of Israel, and who reigns with his chosen family, bought out of the earth, both his bride and his body as one family, in one household, fellow citizens in the New Jerusalem above, which decends to reign upon the earth."
Just scriptures.
Have to hit send. Pick up again at "Exalted Name" reference when I can.